/fit/ — The simple truth that destroyed /fit/

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>>77330833 (OP)
DHT ≠ testosterone and high testosterone does not imply high DHT, and high DHT doesn't even reliably cause hair loss.

>>77330833 (OP)
Basically it goes like this.

DHT ≠ testosterone
high testosterone ≠ no hair
OP = faggot

androgen sensitivity is more important than T levels.

Girls don’t even prefer muscular bodies anymore and they don’t care much for baldness either. What are you guys doing

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>>77330952

>>77330833 (OP)
>testosterone doesn't cause hair loss
>some dudes start balding on their first test blast
Someone is lying

>>77330833 (OP)
Still never taking the tranny pills, sorry pfizer shill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRhVdzzHT0

>>77330953
I look and sound like this

>>77330833 (OP)
no its the genetic sensibility of your hair folicules to DHT, some guys are less affected by it

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I was on a four day per week program for a while. I stopped progressing, I started to get weird poop (even though I had plenty of fiber in my diet), and having a hard time sleeping normally. And then I came across Mike Mentzer's tapes from which I learned about the important of recovery. I took one week off and reduced volume and frequency. Suddenly everything is back to normal and I'm progressing again on nor more than two to three sessions per week, one set per exercise. No more than two exercises per muscle group. I also reduced by protein intake to only a 20g surplus over maintenance. Too much protein clogs you up. I'm having the best poops of my life.

>>77330845
>>77330875
>>77330984
One might not equal the other but it is an absolute fact that the more T you have the more likely it is some/more will be converted to DHT.
>DHT doesn't even reliably cause hair loss
You're joking right? It's literally the main driver in MPB, it's the most common fucking cause and that's why pretty much every anti-balding treatment attempts to mitigate DHT.

>>77331160
If you'd bothered to read the whole sentence it might have made more sense to you. High DHT does not reliably cause hair loss. This is not mutually exclusive with DHT causing hair loss, or even with the more extreme claim that DHT is literally the only thing causing hair loss. You'll see people with enormously high DHT and a full head of hair and people with chronically low DHT in full blown norwood 7, because some people are much *much* more susceptible to hair loss than others. Genetics are a bitch.

>>77331166
>some people
>Is most common cause of balding
I think the attitude towards it is warranted then isn't it? You're not even refuting my point, just stupidly saying "well some people don't" how is this relevant then? For the people that are going bald it's most likely DHT causing it, regardless of their genetics, it's the DHT causing it. Jfc how addicted to reading your own written word are you.

>>77331175
I don't care if it's the only cause of balding, OP's image (the thing I was responding to) is still wrong and retarded. High DHT does not mean bald. Low DHT does not mean full head of hair. End of fucking discussion.

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>>77330833 (OP)
Retard. It's about scalp sensitivity to DHT, not total testosterone.

>take 500mg test enanthate
>take 2.5mg dutasteride
>ru58841
<???
>enjoy being high T and keeping a nice piece of hair
I swear you mfs are actual retards.

>>77331175
>DHT causing it
Correct
>regardless of their genetics
Wrong and retarded.
The single most important factor for baldness in men is androgenic receptor sensitivity on the scalp, which is 100% genetic.
Most men who DON'T have male pattern baldness isn't because they don't have enough DHT, it's because they have just as much DHT as the next fella but his scalp receptors aren't hyper sensitive to it. Which again, is 100% genetics.

Fin may be great for guys who can lower their DHT to a sweet spot in which it will be low enough to avoid otherwise inevitable baldness but not low enough to kill their dicks. For some guys though, DHT must be so low to avoid baldness that they'll turn into eunuchs, so what's the point. And of course, some guys could avoid baldness by lowering their DHT to just half their normal levels, but will take fin/duta to the point of lowering DHT by 90+% and will kill their dicks unecessarily.

It's not always a simple matter.

>>77331257
I've heard a lot of claims that lowering DHT during a cycle kills your gains, but for me it doesn't make sense at all.

>>77330833 (OP)
Explain Henry Cavill and Chris Evans.

>>77330833 (OP)
Bears are typically strongfat and hairy.

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>>77330833 (OP)
i see a lot of balding dorks who are both weak as fuck and annoying as shit. just because roids caused some adverse effects on hair doesnt mean its a sign of high test

>>77331160
nta but im on trt and my free T is off the lab range. but i have below average DHT still

>>77330875
/thread

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>>77331160
>One might not equal the other but it is an absolute fact that the more T you have the more likely it is some/more will be converted to DHT.
No, that is not the case, sorry. You don't know shit about biology.

Enzymes that change one molecule into another can only do so at a certain speed. For every enzyme there is a "cosmic speed limit" to how quickly it can change a molecule (or, how much it can produce within a certain amount of time). Every molecule has certain properties, you can't change the laws of physics.

A molecule that is changed by an enzyme is called a substrate, and how good an enzyme is at changing it is called the specificity constant. The highest possible value for the specificity constant an enzyme can have is called the rate limit (so basically, the fastest it can convert one molecule into another).

Past a certain amount of substate, no matter how much more substrate you feed into an enzyme... it will not make more products. Because of the rate limit. Pic related.

The rate limit of 5α reductase means that more testosterone is NOT more DHT. If your testosterone is at inadequate levels to be converted to DHT at the rate limit, yes, increasing testosterone will increase DHT. But then, you're testosterone deficient. If you're not testosterone deficient, increasing testosterone cannot lead to increased DHT output. If this is the case, then the individual has naturally high 5α reductase. If you want to nuke your 5α reductase because of those individuals, that's like saying you're going to stop eating meat because it fucked up someone with alpha gal syndrome.

>>77331316
>>DHT causing it
>Correct
Incorrect.

DHT is what executes the nervous system's commands to modify tissue, in this case involving the scalp, follicles and the lymphatic system. The cause is those "commands".

Saying DHT causes baldness is like saying the murder weapon committed a murder, and putting the murder weapon in jail.

>>77330833 (OP)
You can have insanely high testosterone and still not lose any hair as long as your DHT stays low-ish.
>>77330845
High enough DHT at the hair follicle will reliably cause hairloss.

Testosterone has nothing to do with hair loss or growth. If you're losing hair, it's because you are being poisoned either by your diet or your environment. Usually it's the seed oils and coffee and stress causing it. You can grow luscious hair by rubbing coconut oil and tallow on your scalp.

DHT will only affect your scalp hair, idiots. High DHT will actually give you a greater body hair. This common old knowledge that everyone on this board used to have. This place is beyond dead.

>>77330833 (OP)
>not blonde
what would I care about animals nutrition?

>>77332682
>DHT is what executes the nervous system's commands
Utterly wrong. Male pattern baldness does not respond do CNS. In fact you could denervate the entire scalp (in theory, since this would be a cirurgical nightmare) and baldies would still go bald.
DHT *is* the driver of commands to the scalp. It says: "go there and modify gene expression", and the receptors go into the nuclei and command the cell to produce signalling proteins that ultimately order the follicles to shrink. Massive amounts of DHT will cause this to happen to virtually everyone; normal male levels of DHT will cause it to happen to guys who either have a huge amount of receptors, or receptors who are extremely sensitive, or downstream transcription factors that once activated by the receptors remain active for far too long, or even way downstream protein receptors (like TGF-Br) that hyperrespond to even tiny amounts of these effector proteins.

You're blaming CNS for something it doesn't do. DHT is not a neurotransmitter, nor is it a "CNS on demand hormone" like adrenaline. The calmest, most harmonic CNS, calmly and softly releasing GNRh -> LH to a calm and soft release of Testosterone from the testicles, can still cause male pattern baldness if the non-nervous tissues respond in a way they shouldn't, either because
>they convert too much Test -> DHT in situ
>the androgen receptors respond too much to otherwise ok levels of DHT
>the downstream transcription factors remain active for too long and produce too much paracrine signalling proteins
>the signalling protein receptors respond too much to otherwise ok levels of signalling proteins
CNS is innocent.

>>77332894
>You're blaming CNS for something it doesn't do.
It does. The release and distribution of DHT is not an independent process, but the consequence of antecedent signals. DHT is the end point of those signals, not the starting point.

>DHT is not a neurotransmitter
Was never claimed. Tissue regulation =/= neurotransmission.

Conversely, steroid hormones can transiently affect neurotransmission through the activation of gene expression in certain neurons, for instance causing the release of dopamine during sexual encounters. They can also regulate the the distribution of androgen/estrogen receptors in certain areas of the brain to exert their effects on neurotransmission.

>non-nervous tissues respond in a way they shouldn't
Then this is still not caused by DHT.

>they convert too much Test -> DHT in situ
Local conversion of DHT only happens in significant amounts on the prostate.

>the androgen receptors respond too much to otherwise ok levels of DHT
>the signalling protein receptors respond too much to otherwise ok levels of signalling proteins
>the downstream transcription factors remain active for too long and produce too much paracrine signalling proteins
Yeah, same thing as individuals having above average 5α-reductase activity. That means it's an individual issue, not an issue with DHT's role in tissue regulation of the scalp. In the third case, it is extremely, extremely unlikely that DHT is responsible, since there are very few factors where DHT affects lasting upregulation.

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>I'm balding because I'm "high test" and thus manly and masculine

Biggest cope of the century.

>>77332931
Thanks for posting this reaction image, it helped make your greentext a lot more funny.

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>>77331157
>I'm having the best poops of my life.
All you had to say brother, we're sold

>>77332931
Anon, balding IS a masculine trait. Women do not bald unless they are diseased. Balding IS caused by testosterone. M'kay?

>>77332924
>Source: I work at home depot and this is how I think it should be

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>>77332987
Balding is a sign of a disease. Animals lose their fur due to stress, malnutrition and disease.
For humans it's somehow different?

>>77332931
Dyel twink.

any credence to the idea that never washing your hair will help you to keep it?

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>>77333177
poo
in
the
loo

>>77330953
big weight good
bigger weight = bigger grug

>>77333177
unless you consider aging a disease (which it isn't, it's a natural biological process) no you're just flat out wrong.
all animals lose fur as they age, have you never owned a fucking dog?

>>77331753
What is there to explain? Cavill is Norwood 3+, Evans had a hair transplant. His hairline was noticeably worse 20 years ago.

>>77333609
No, they don't. Their fur gets grey and scruffier. And that only really happens when they're the equivalent of a senior citizen, while humans start losing hair in the 30s or even younger. They don't go bald like human men do.

>>77333177
male lions can have male pattern baldness and still be otherwise healthy, look it up

>>77330984
Everything in excess is bad for you, regardless of whether it is necessary for basic bodily function or not. You can overdose on something as unassuming like vitamin d and suffer far more horrible effects than that. Testosterone in normal doses is good for your hair but nobody really needs to be doing the stuff guys in the gym are doing.

>>77332924
>It does.
It doesn't. Also the Earth isn't flat fyi. Stop making nonsense claims.
>Then this is still not caused by DHT
You're just being obtuse on purpose. DHT goes to tissue -> tissue overresponds due to excessive receptor sensitivity or excessive downstream activation -> mpb happens. Cut off DHT -> receptors not activated -> mpb doesn't happen.
DHT is literally causing baldness, even if it doesn't cause baldness ALONE... like all cell signalling in the body, really. Even insulin "doesn't cause blood glucose to drop" alone, since it depends on downstream translocation of GLUT transporters etc... but it's moronic to claim "insulin doesn't lower glucose", and you would literally kill yourself if you tried to prove otherwise.

>only happens in significant amounts on the prostate
Proven false, another nonsensic claim.

>more obtuse argumentation
If you reduce DHT and balding stops, it's DHT causing it. Period.
>but muh individual issue
Still DHT causing baldness because said individual is genetically prone to be unable to handle DHT without going bald, through any of the mechanisms I already mentioned.

But if you really wanna be an asshole, then "DHT doesn't cause baldness... on itself". What causes male pattern baldness is upstream steroidogenesis + DHT + androgen receptors + nuclear transcription factors + signalling proteins + signalling protein receptors + the fact that hair follicles exist.
Indeed DHT will not make a petri dish go bald, for example. But that's just you being an ass.

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>>77330833 (OP)
>OP trying desperately to conflate DHT with testosterone to fearmonger over hairloss
Tranny or roidtranny

Call it.

>>77333874
>Everything in excess is bad for you,
What about love?

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>>77330833 (OP)
It's complete lies and hormones are memes.

Hair loss is mostly driven by various downstream proteins like DKK1 and CXCL12, along with EDA2R. I completely blitzed these targets with some reverse network pharmacology and did some freaky-ass reverse-balding.
t. S-tier trichology researcher

>>77330920
And in normie terms, that's basically what all this bio-babble above means.

>>77331316
>which is 100% genetic.
Kek, explain what threonic acid does to DKK1 expression and how that relates to DHT then, Mr. Nobel prize geneticist.
>protip: that shit even on Wikipedia, bro.

>>77331116
>>77331166
...and there are only some genetic risk factors for hair loss, but all the above proteins I mentioned are ack-shilly readily environmentally druggable outside the androgen pathway.

>>77331160
>literally the main driver in MPB
Then explain why wild-type mice can't get MPB.
>protip: CXCL12 skill issues

>>77331237
There are over 80 balding syndromes out there. But the two most common, "androgenic" and "areata" alopecias both share CXCL12 as a main driver.

>>77332894
Congrats on doing enough trichology research to identify the TGF-beta signalling pathway, all that shit I talk about above nukes it when the activity is too high.

>>77333609
Most diseases are natural processes, aging included. Look at the emerging evidence on senolytics CURING a-fib and arthritis in mouse models, which happen to be sub-diseases of aging, Chud.

>>77333882
kek TOTALLY F'N wrong. Other chemicals can activate/upregulate the same downstream targets that androgens do.

>>77330845
you can trust him, he downloaded a picture from google.