/lit/ — Modern psychology is fucked specifically because we are igno

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>>25337532 (OP)
>because we are ignoring the unconscious
Because it's harder to exploit if people are self-aware

>>25337536
Sometimes I wonder if that's the real reason for why we cannot acknowledge psychology on anything but the surface-level of behavioral categorization.

>>25337539
>uhhh, you're LITERALLY projecting

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>>25337532 (OP)
psychologists exist to tell rich women they are right to murder babies and to monitor non rich people for the government. psychology exists to avoid thomistic concepts of passive intellect and habits in order to deny God so as to justify murdering babies by lying about not knowing that murdering babies is wrong then claiming that well we only do what is right in our own eyes therefore sin doesnt exist

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>>25337539
psyche + logos means SOUL GOD

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>>25337560

>>25337536
Based knower

Psychology would be significantly better if it was only based on the objective and used the proper full scientific method instead of constantly just making shit up.

As it currently stands it's 20% actual science and 80% bullshit. That isn't viable.

>>25338072
Read "against method"

>>25338079
Not unless you give a very good reason why I should.

>>25338072
Objectivity and using the proper full scientific method ultimately comes down to constantly making shit up. You'd know that if you had ever actually engaged with a field of the hard sciences.

>>25338085
That is definitionally/logically incorrect.
Your statement is nonsense.

>>25338089
NTA but he's right. Quit being such an undergrad

The really grim thing is modern psychology is actually open about the mechanism of transference and do things to intentionally bring it about as a per-condition for therapy, but they no longer like jung include breaking it.
For jungs transference (basically the inflation/diviniation of the psychologist by the patient as a means of engaging with the unconcious) is an important step but one that is for a purpose of overcoming it. Jung wrote letters to people telling them at the point they were at analysis was a negative and they should stop seeing someone and just engage with it individually, that's the point you are supposed to get to. The weird relationship with a psych is just a means of getting there.

Modern psychology just keeps people in it, has no exit point. You just intentionally foster the transference in patients, get them on drugs and then drain them of money. it's incredbily bleak.

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>>25338089
>That is definitionally/logically incorrect.
>Your statement is nonsense.

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>>25338090
>>25338094

Make a real argument.

>>25338101
You'll learn when you grow up. Or you won't, doesn't matter.

>>25338105
Ooooh
Vague posting.
Last retreat of the butthurt and cowardly.

>>25338093
I should be glad I never went in analysis.
But yeah, it always felt like a mockery of its origins, effectively anti-individuation.

>>25338093
>Modern psychology just keeps people in it, has no exit point. You just intentionally foster the transference in patients, get them on drugs and then drain them of money.
Or promote Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which is just a palliative to stave off psychic problems, and avoid actually dealing with them.

>>25337536
Yep. This is why Jung is systematically dismissed as a “mystic” in popular academia. He hits right at the heart of all psychological malice at play today.

>>25338101
did you think posting a picture of a scientific method diagram was going to lend you some credibility?

>>25338101
>>25338089
Retard lol

>>25339964
Point: proper full scientific method ultimately comes down to constantly making shit up
Counterpoint: image showing the scientific method does not in fact come down to constantly making shit up

You:
>did you think posting a picture of a scientific method diagram was going to lend you some credibility?

Me:
>Is this guy legitimately retarded or just pretending to be retarded for the sake of argument?

>>25337532 (OP)
I think it's moreso that the bulk of "effective" psychology is under lock and key by various high and hidden entities.

>>25340227
Do you think most anons know about the scientific method?
These mfs can't even pass calculus and seethe at math
Its over.

>>25340227
Have you ever read the allegory of the cave? It's very introductory and hacked to bits by meme-inspired interpretations, but if you understood it then you may begin to understand why you are being picked on.

The miscommunication between you and others is because you have a huge misunderstanding on the nature of knowledge. So you say things like "based on the objective" and "20% actual science and 80% bullshit" that reveal that, even if you have seen the form of scientific method, you don't truly understand its function.

The reason it is assumed you are young, is because you are supposed to be taught the epistemological (and ontological) underpinnings of modern science on your path to a degree. It is actually the nicest interpretation from them to assume you just haven’t been taught yet. The other interpretation is that you already tried and failed.

To everyone who has actually approached a scientific field, you appear as one of the people in the allegory, staring at shadows on the wall of a cave. And they can't bring the fire to you, the only way to change is for you to go look yourself.

And they, having looked at the fire, can no longer see, through the darkness, the puppetry keeping you fooled, so it is really hard to engage with those ideas. It is not easy to come down to your level of misunderstanding and that can be frustrating. To watch someone struggle in the dark, wishing you could show them the light but seeing them resist it every time. It is misguided from them, but the urge to call you stupid is just a coping mechanism for that frustration. If you are a big person, I hope you can find comfort in the idea that them calling you a fool originates from a place of wanting to help you.

To summarise: It would take more effort than anyone can afford to respond to you in a way that would be beneficial to you, so you get called a fool instead.

>>25340547
That is a lot of words to avoid making a rational argument, instead making a high effort insult that honestly just comes off as tryhard.

>>25340547
Good ol' nominalism and realism.
Also relevant, since it's the basis for Jungian types.

Relevant

>Science is the highest power of man, for we can do just what we can do, and when we try to deal with things which are beyond our comprehension, we are overstepping our competence. You see, there are plenty of secrets-only a few fools, morbid intellects, think we have solved all the riddles; anybody with even the smallest amount of imagination knows that the world is a great enigma, and psychology is one of the foremost enigmas.

But Jung might be overestimating people here, not many have this smallest amount of imagination required.

>>25337635
You are mixing psychoanalysis with therapy.
Psychoanalysis' purpose is to completely destroy your mind. Those mechanisms that they keep you safe from yourself are destroyed, and after that fight a new being is born.
Therapy tells you to ditch your boyfriend and kill babies. It feeds the ego, it doesn't destroy it. It's applying a bandage to a rotting wound.

>>25338083
It is impossible to apply scientific method to psychology.
How would you do it? Ask the patients if they are cured? As I said above, those who just got a bandage applied would say that they are, yet they problems are still there, they just had their egos inflated. So you would end with a psychology that doesn't fix your psyche at all.
There is a reason for mental illness. It's not like a virus where an external danger invade us. This is an internal mechanism attempting to save us from our shadow.

>>25340800
>So you would end with a psychology that doesn't fix your psyche at all.
That's what we have today. No one is ever cured, only labelled and filled with meds at best so he can be a more or less functional cog in the machine, but still a broken mess of a human being.

>>25340791
>Psychoanalysis' purpose is to completely destroy your mind
No wonder you're so wary of it - it would be an easy job in your case.

>>25340800
>It is impossible to apply scientific method to psychology
Then it isn't science, isn't based on scientific principles, and isn't scientifically valid.

>egos
>psyche
>our shadow
Spooks.
Woo woo made up nonsense that isn't objectively real.

>>25342223
The demand for objectivity has become a ghastly screech among those who abandoned themselves to become part of the list.
Objectivity does not, nor is it able to, exist without the subject and her perspective, and this one can never be listed on the whole. Not without creating a multidimensional library.

>>25342295
Utter nonsense.

>>25342223
The mind isn't objectively real either. The "woo woo nonsense" is an inevitable feature of psychology.
This does not invalidate the discipline. The human mind is the most interesting and important thing we know of. An attempt to study it must be made, in spite of all the hazards.

>>25342306
Nuh-uh.
The possible world collapses into the subjective world. This is physics itself.

>>25342315
>This is physics itself.
Must have missed that day of physics class.
Tell me, which principle of physics says "The possible world collapses into the subjective world"?

>>25342313
The mind at least is empirically observable phenomenon.
It's exact properties aren't objectively know, instead it's a emergent phenomenon from the brain. That much can be verified through observation and experimentation.
The same can't be said of "the shadow" or other such Jung occultisms.

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>>25342339
Reductive materialism is the dumbest attitude you can possibly have towards psychology. In fact at some point you can't even call it psychology anymore, since you are collapsing it into neuroscience.

You have to imagine our body is a car:
As long you study it from an entirely empirical angle, you can eventually figure out its mechanics, as in, how the parts are connected to each other to make it so the car *can* move.
But where's the driver? A car doesn't move without it. Why does the driver drive the car in such a way? Why another driver would move it in a different way even if it's essentially the same car? That's the question of psychology. Which of course has some inevitable overlap with philosophy or spirituality, since they try to express the same concepts and answer the same questions through symbols.

>>25342332
>Tell me, which principle of physics says "The possible world collapses into the subjective world"?
He means quantum physics I'm guessing.

>>25342965
Quantum physics doesn't say that, so that can't be it.

>>25343014
It's a reference to superpositions and observer effect.

>>25342945
>psychology needs woo woo mysticism to work

Then it isn't valid as a science by your own admission. It isn't valid as a medical practice either.
I don't accept magical thinking on faith alone. I don't trust magical thinking as a reasonable or reliable method of treating illness.

>>25343019
Nether of those support mystic nonsense at all.
New agers apparently never actually picked up a quantum physics book. They make pop science ones that are legitimately good at explaining how quantum physics works to the ordinary person.

>>25343024
No one cares about what you accept or not, psychic facts stay facts as much as anything else. But there again, nobody can force a blind man to see.

>>25343033
Made up woo woo garbage aren't facts.
Just because someone says any ol bullshit don't make it true.

>>25343041
Do you even know what psychology is supposed to be studying, anyways?
Everything that is experienced by the mind is psychic fact.

>>25343054
Apparently anon thinks that if something only happens in the mind, then it is simply "not real" and for some reason this entire aspect should be completely ignored.
Of course it's a position much more insane than its opposite, for there is no known reality at all without an observing subject.

>>25343053
Just because you make the assumption that I use reddit doesn't mean I have ever used the site.

How about you get real and stop playing make believe while expecting everyone to play along.

>>25343054
Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion at hand and doesn't matter in context.

>>25343060
solipsism is both invalid and stupid.

>>25343062
Psychology isn't concerned with whether you literally use Reddit or not, only the fact that your mindset would be a perfect fit, so you should go there anyways and have such discussions with likeminded folks.

>>25343071
We are "esse in anima" chads here, that's not slopsism.
>what's that?
A concept that was briefly introduced in a random chapter of Psychological Types and not elaborated upon until a lecture given in the 1925 seminar.

>>25343074
What a retard you are.

>>25343371
I accept your concession.

>>25343373
Concession of what?
That you are retarded?

>>25343377
I already accepted your concession.