/m/ — Fuck Gigi. Fuck Kelia. Fuck Julia Fuck Esmeralda. Fuck Mace.

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So did all the waifus die on the boat in the movie 2 or what?

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>>23869741 (OP)
>oh, that's a sudden cut to a dark, zoomed-out night battle where I couldn't tell who's shooting at who
>that wreckage made a big fire FAST holy shit
>Hathaway comes in with the same questions and identifies the wreckage
ngl I might have made the same face at the theater

>>23869949
>waifus
Fuck off tourist.

>>23869973
This. I genuinely do not understand how they don't show the Squad 3 Mafty ship getting destroyed by Alyzeus, yet devote time on Gigi's interior decorating and monologue scenes.

>>23869741 (OP)
You are a man of integrity just like me.

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>>23869987
Cry more retard

All things said the movie was solid. I hope the 3rd movie sticks the landing for the ending because I’m curious how it will end. A new ending for the movies or the actual book ending
>>23870027
Agreed the interior decoration part was a real waste of time. Especially since she just dumps the house to run away. They did say the the crew could have survived and the federation wouldn’t shoot life rafts so the crew of the ship many could have survived

What was Kenneth looking at outside the window at the very end of the movie? Are those broadcast antenna array for the conference, or the Star Trek™ energy dampening net thing that they're gonna try to trap the Xi with?

>>23870027
It wasn't the Alyzeus, it was the sub tracking them. That's why the last time you see them the shot tracks down to the periscope following them.

>>23870053
>spoiler
yeah, it's the 2nd one.

>avatarfag is retarded
Wow color me surprised.

>>23870060
So we’re likely getting the book ending? I wonder if Gigi fortune telling bit will save Hathaway and we will get a different ending. I don’t remember where I read it but I think the director said he wanted to follow the source material close but not as dark as it was in tominos work

>>23869973
I think they did a really good job of giving you enough to grab onto with the characters that you could tell everyone apart and kinda feel it when things went bad.
It took me a bit to cotton onto but they're really trying to put you in Hathaway's head. He's not really paying attention to the people around him because he's so focused on becoming an autismo murderbot to avenge those that died in 0093, and then it's hitting him once it's already too late what he's lost. Kelia in particular, that's why they only give you context with her deal where they do in the film.

>>23869949
Emeralda lived, Kelia quit and rest of the girls are presumed dead.

>>23869741 (OP)
She ded nigga

Anyone here not feeling the fight storyboarding and choreography? I know they're trying to sell the Gundams as aerial fighters but it's mostly a whole lot of cockpit alarms with neon beams and missile spreads. Has Hathaway pulled off any cool or impressive piloting feats that put him on par with say, Uso or Seabook level?

>>23870255
It's a very different kind of choreography, a little bit Macross-y and very BFM-y. Which makes sense for the kinds of mobile suits we're looking at, they're brutes with paradigm-changing capabilities rather than refined mobile suits as we generally know them. I think there's still some cool stuff in there though. The sleight of hand to take out Penelope in the first film was great, felt a lot like the kind of stuff Amuro was pulling all the time in CCA.
In 2 he uses the terrain around Uluru to his advantage a lot. They've got a prepared killbox to try and exploit with the SAMs and he's constantly doing shit like kicking up dust or trying to break sightlines. I think just about my entire cinema went
>ohhhh fuck
when the beam sabre ignited through the MP Nu's leg and everyone suddenly realised what'd just happened in the dust clouds. Been fun watching these with an audience and hearing the parts that people react to, by the way.
But it depends on the kind of choreography you like, of course. This is more trying to convey the intensity of the knife fight in the phone booth than it is be conventional mecha choreography a lot of the time, which won't be everyone's thing and that's fine.

>>23870255
>Has Hathaway pulled off any cool or impressive piloting feats that put him on par with say, Uso or Seabook level?
Who cares? Why not judge the movie for what it is instead of comparing it to random entries?

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>>23870327
When I was watching movie 2 the other day, the part that finally felt a bit better was when the better-skilled (but still nameless) EF pilots were able to stand up to Hathaway and not get shot down immediately, they even tried to pounce on him with beam sabers and had a bit of teamwork going, keeping Hathaway on his toes. It's not that I need to see Hathaway struggle, but even though I figure the cockpit alarms and everything probably follows more realistically with a real-life jet fighter in combat, I'm just not that into it. I do like the HUD and interface though, seeing everything tagged and tracked.

>>23870370
>Who cares? Why not judge the movie for what it is instead of comparing it to random entries?
I AM judging it.. I found most of the fights not super interesting, except for the one I mentioned in >>23870384 and the final fight against Alyzeus. Why am I not allowed to compare?

I bring up Seabook because F91 maybe had more compelling presentation in my mind when Seabook famously shoots down two enemies at once during his first battle, and Hathaway director Shuko Murase had worked on F91 as one of the animation directors. One of the first battles in the Hathaway 2 movie had the Xi effortlessly shoot down 3 enemies in the space of about 5 seconds from above, but it wasn't very interesting for me.

>>23870384
Yeah that's all reasonable. To give you a little context, jet combat is referred to as a 'knife fight in a phone booth' because it's not just incredibly dangerous but precise and reliant on making all the right moves at all the right moments. You're basically playing speed chess with the other guy around the sound barrier. Modern A2A weapons are incredibly deadly so you only need a narrow window of opportunity, and the other guy is at the same time both trying to deny you one and get his own. You're trying to work out what he's flying, what he's got to throw at you, what he's trying to do and what his current energy state is, in addition to what you're going to do about it, while also moving in a way your monkey brain was never equipped to at speeds you can't meaningfully conceive of. And you probably weigh several times what you normally do because of the Gs you're pulling in the process and having to physically fight to keep the blood in your head.

Obviously not all of these dynamics apply to mobile suits but Hathaway's choreography is very firmly focused on that in-cockpit experience of the pilots trying to manage that dance without dying. That's why it has the best developed cockpit soundscape of any Gundam to date and showing you how the pilots are getting flung around or forced back into their seats in the cockpit, as well as trying to let you in more on their attempts to track the battle and decision-making. That whole segment at the start of the Xi v Alyzeus duel without music is really going hard on that. Hathaway doesn't even get a look at what he's fighting until about halfway in, he's so focused on going defensive.
In a textual sense it's really trying to draw out the idea that combat isn't glorious or dramatic in the cinematic sense, it's intense and dangerous and not much fun at all, which the air raid in the first film was also getting at. Whatever vague sense of nobility that may have existed before is dead, these are killing machines.

>>23870399
>In a textual sense it's really trying to draw out the idea that combat isn't glorious or dramatic in the cinematic sense, it's intense and dangerous and not much fun at all, which the air raid in the first film was also getting at. Whatever vague sense of nobility that may have existed before is dead, these are killing machines.
I wonder if they studied combat footage to get that feel. I definitely got that sense also from the footage of the soldier on the ground being completely lost in the chaos and then encountering a mobile suit step out of the fog of war and walk across directly above him. That part also felt so much more intimidating and better done than similar scenes in other shows.

You put it in a really good way in regards to the dogfighting. It's a change of pace from the other kinds of fights in Gundam which I guess are more "anime" and meant to be visually entertaining for most viewers, and not a type of feel that they're gone for before. I also get what you mean about the cockpit soundscape, that's also probably why the cockpit alarms stood out to me so much.

>>23870255
Its sort of stiff and floaty, which might be intentional to show off how new and weird moving with the minvosky craft system is

>>23870409
In a way it also feels true to the origins of UC and Tomino's work to go back to that feeling of sci-fi and military nerds making a mecha show, rather than mecha nerds making a mecha show.

I think there's a really interesting thematic throughline kind of through earlier UC but particularly F91 and Hathaway that's conveyed almost entirely visually, this sense that the mere existence of a mobile suit is itself an act of violence. These things cannot exist in a world built for humans, they can only destroy it. They are incompatible with life. They may at times be necessary but there's a certain evil almost inherent to them.
In F91 in particular it's almost entirely the defending Jegans and other feddie gear in the intro causing collateral damage, often through an act as simple as trying to steady itself or the cycling of a weapon independent of the actual killing intent behind firing it. Similarly in the air raid in the first Hathaway, half the time you can't even tell the offending party inches from killing Hathaway and Gigi. Friend and foe hold little meaning when you're ants arguing the affiliation of elephants.
I think it's a very interesting contrast to stuff like Unicorn which feels much more distinctly 'mecha nerd' than 'sci fi nerd' in its reverence for the machines themselves. All the 'beast of possibility' stuff or whatever it was kinda sounds cool in the moment but it's so deeply at odds with how Universal Century in particular has always conceived of mobile suits. G-Witch borrowed a lot from Unicorn in its final act but at least it had the good sense to understand that the angelic white magic suit doesn't get a free pass when you're condemning weapons of war. It also borrowed a ton from Hathaway's visual language, come to think of it.

>>23869741 (OP)
>literally tried to style herself up as Quess to get Hathaway's attention
>ignored and dies
hahahhahaha

>>23870080
yep its kino

I don't get why Tomino was so embarrassed of this book. He was all "oh don't pay attention to that book I was depressed and mad at Bandai and blah blah blah." This connected to me in a way none of the others have. I think a lot of the stuff this movie brings up is touched on in his other works and in those entries I understand intellectually all the stuff like "War bad, counter culture youth, true understanding of each other is an ideal to strive towards that we probably won't ever reach" but in these movies I somehow internalize it more. I don't just know it, I believe it. It provokes me to try to get in the headspace of both the characters and Tomino himself. This shit is great.

>>23870448
Nah, that's a cope to justify the usual jank 3DCG animation.

>>23870839
Creatives are always ashamed of the shit they do, it's why artists online nuke their accounts all the time.

>>23870839
>those entries I understand intellectually all the stuff like "War bad, counter culture youth, true understanding of each other is an ideal to strive towards that we probably won't ever reach" but in these movies I somehow internalize it more

Well the movies made all the backgrounds and interiors look completely modern both rich to poor. Meaning with the serious 1990s story that was pre-9/11 global censorship, you have something closer to how the Rich Areas of the US currently feel than anything I have seen in a very long time

Add that to Hathaway feeling like a 'Serious' Zoomer with his suppressed metal issues, utter quiet despair, extreme silent radicalism, and love issues, and frankly you feel a real weight to it all, it all honestly feels too relatable

>>23870839
I mean... I kinda get it since it's the biggest "fuck you, we're all fucked" book. I don't even think Ideon was that bad. I get it if it had a more hopeful ending, but I can understand backtracking after being in a bad place.
Seriously, I wonder how all these IBO haters will react when they see the last movie. Then again, they're probably not going into it blind and fully expecting Hatha to be executed and Mafty to achieve absolutely nothing.

But mah Fabio.

>>23870839
>>23870855
The film is also just being made as a more adult-focused film for a more mature audience. That's not using 'adult' or 'mature' as a value judgement or anything, it's just a fact that it's not an attempt to fashion something more teen and action-wanting audience friendly out of the story.
I also think the original's sense of burnout with a world that feels like it's only going in the wrong direction despite so many people's efforts is unfortunately a more relatable feeling today to a lot of people than when it was written.

>>23870850
well, partly true on the latter. most art accounts on social media function partly as pseudo-portfolios for some dumb reason, so that "shame" generally stems from a concern of tainting the entire batch by a single faux pas, so to speak, regardless of the quality. and portfolios do need to be extremely carefully curated if someone's genuinely serious about employment in a real industry art job and not just willing to settle doing cartoon porn commissions for scraps for the rest of their lives, or being bound to the capricious whims of payment processors. it's not on the same level as politicians having to be careful about what they say back in the day, or an idol/vtuber breaching the illusion with their fans, but the need to self-curate is unfortunately paramount when detractors can and will use your shittiest work against you. the age of the highly flexible "oh, that artist used to make <x> but now they hit it mainstream!" notion is becoming less and less common by the day sadly

meanwhile tomino is just silly, who knows. he has 0 reason to care about his image when his established career is full of bangers that easily overwrites any failings in the public mind. completely different position and he might be just thinking of a lasting and more "responsible" legacy to impart on younger fans

>>23871024
It's not about image at all, you missed the point.

>>23870993
>I also think the original's sense of burnout with a world that feels like it's only going in the wrong direction despite so many people's efforts is unfortunately a more relatable feeling today to a lot of people than when it was written.

One of those things where I think the writer sees too far ahead into the future while the audience takes a few decades to realize

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>>23871073
>Neoliberal Economics like those Japan's LDP and America's Ronald Reagan are currently turning to will push the haves and the have-nots further and further away from each other, almost to the point of feudal lords and their peasants!
>No wait, I'm being alarmist. Everything will be fine, the wealth will trickle down or whatever
>The K-shaped economy 40 years later
Can you imagine if we really got a highly militarized immigration police force that antagonized the general public?

>>23871116
Hahaha Imagine that hahaha
I'm going to end up being executed like Hathaway.

>>23871073
js though, what happened to our heroes? how come protests now a days are so gay?

>>23871145
Because this is not an age of Heroism

>how come protests now a days are so gay?
Because modern protests are political rituals usually funded by some rich person to push an idea, occasionally they use them as a violent release valve. You don't tend to see organic protests much these days because collectively in the west there is a growing concusses they don't work.

A tell if there is a real organic protest is the media will have no idea what to say on it for a week or two if they don't outright shut down news around it

>>23871145
>how come protests now a days are so gay?
Psyops and fedposting. Before anyone has to actually organize a movement, the feds kindly guide people to little parades, remind them that actually disrupting anything would be rude and make you as bad as those other people you don't like. After a little bit of chanting everyone has vented just enough frustration to sit back down in their cubicles. Nobody needs to go back to the cash registers because they were already there. Like the taxi driver in the first movie, they are too worried about paying a bill tomorrow to dedicate any time or headspace to making things better a year from now. Couldn't afford to lose the hours to a protest they know deep down doesn't mean anything.

>>23871159
>>23871154
it's so freaking over.... and let's be honest some of these protests make no sense or cover the wrong damn idea. god i hate people now a days, i wonder if it's too late to get a cabin in the woods and live off the radar.

>>23871145
Revolution inherently asks the participants to risk everything. You can really only get a large number of people to do that if they have nothing left to lose. Residents of burgerstan have just enough to their name that they don't qualify for that. So that leaves internal reform and incremental change, but we have enough information available to us now to know that those things are a myth. So we have gay little protests so we can lie to ourselves about having given up.

>>23870839
>I don't get why Tomino was so embarrassed of this book. He was all "oh don't pay attention to that book I was depressed and mad at Bandai and blah blah blah."
you should understand that tomino loves to say contradicting things in his interviews, they should not be taken seriously.

>>23871116
>>23871138
I saw Hathaway for the second time in cinemas recently and had a bit of an uncomfortable laugh to myself when the Manhunters showed up. It felt like it could've been an on-the-nose commentary today, kind of had to remind myself the movie is five years old, the book is 35 years old and the Manhunters first came up even further back in CCA.
>>23871073
I think he was initially writing it more with the student movements of his youth in mind. A lot of Gundam's politics relate to the staff being among the first generation to grow up in postwar Japan. There were a lot of student movements, a decent chunk of which were around the way that Japan was still kind of failing as a liberal democracy and arguably still is today. Most of those protesters then put on a suit and tie and became cogs in the system anyway.
It's probably less that he saw the future as such and more that he understood things about the present, in a way others maybe didn't or didn't want to vocalise.

>>23871145
>what happened to our heroes? how come protests now a days are so gay?
Be the change you wanna see.

>>23870839
Just wait and see if Tomino can eke out a few more years, he'll probably change his mind like how he did with victory

>>23871219
alright nvm I get it now. shit's fucked mate

>>23871116
Remember how the "refugees" on earth were created by spacenoids dropping shit on earth and killing other spacenoids multiple times

>>23870993
>>23871073
>I also think the original's sense of burnout with a world that feels like it's only going in the wrong direction despite so many people's efforts is unfortunately a more relatable feeling today to a lot of people than when it was written
>One of those things where I think the writer sees too far ahead into the future while the audience takes a few decades to realize
A lot of people felt like this back in the 80s, people have felt like this for thousands of years.

>>23873565
>A lot of people felt like this back in the 80s, people have felt like this for thousands of years.
Appropriately, people also feel like they're the only ones who have ever felt like this for thousands of years.

>>23870327
>>23870384
>>23870399
>>23870489
Very strong take, I definitely feel you on it. The fight at the end very much comes off as Hathaway trying to figure out what he's actually dealing with before engaging, in a way that from your typical mecha action standpoint seems excessively cautious, but in a realistic battle scenario where one wrong call can mean death, makes perfect sense. It makes it all the more intense and jarring when he snaps during his flashback and simply goes all in on fucking up Lane.

>>23873867
Worth remembering too that in the first film he at least gets a look at Penelope in action briefly in the air raid before he has to fight it, so it's not a totally unknown quantity. As the audience we know that the Xi outclasses the TX-104 that Lane has to bring to Uluru but as far as Hathaway's concerned SOMETHING that seems to fly like it has a minovsky flight system just showed up. For all he knows AE might've pulled the same trick again and given the EFF the RX-106 or some shit and now he's got the inferior suit, or it could be a completely unknown quantity.

>>23870040
I think it was done poorly, but Gigi's girl boss scene did have a point: it showed her settling very comfortably, and how she's succumbed to the ease of upper class life, or more abstractly, the ideal she represented has succumbed to gravity. When she kills and eats away the last of Hathaway's stone-cold chud facade at the end, it's implied that she fucked him down into the abyss, and is preparing to take him to her new nest, representing her ideal's upper hand in the battle for hathaway's worldview, and his faltering resolve to carry out Mafty's mission. O algo.

>>23870070
Hathaway will still get executed, but the Xi vs. Penelope Repaired fight will go completely different. Instead of being anticlimactic with the Xi just stopping after getting caught in electric nets, they will make it so that the Xi somehow continues fighting and hopefully kill off Lane.

>>23869741 (OP)
She is probably a prisoner of war.

>>23874200
>how she's succumbed to the ease of upper class life
I saw it as more about her place in the food chain. She's exploited but in such a way that also leaves her exploiting others. As much as she's living in a very comfortable guilded cage she's just as much a result of her being exploited by the immensely powerful to provide a service. She's paid in what amounts to a ration of the wealth and influence that those actually on top recieve, the ability to play at status over those she's really more alike than different from.
It's something of a parallel to Hathaway in the first film. He's pulling strings to get on an incredibly exclusive flight, he's being given favours amounting to ridiculous amounts of wealth and access, the taxi conversation really highlights how even having the time to be radicalised and the means to act on it is a result of his fairly priviliged place in society as the son of a famous and respected EFSF officer.
Both of them have equal claim to being victims and beneficiaries of the deeply unequal and unjust world the Earth Federation perpetuates.
I'd also say the end is less about shaking his resolve and more pulling him back from becoming something he's not, or at least doesn't have to be. If there's one throughline in Gundam other than war being bad, it's that isolating yourself from human connection and your own humanity is a weakness rather than a strength.

>>23870027
>I genuinely do not understand how they don't show the Squad 3 Mafty ship getting destroyed by Alyzeus
Only relevant to the plot insofar as it shows Hathaway/Mafty losing long term allies before even reaching Adelaide
>yet devote time on Gigi's interior decorating and monologue scenes
Immersion in both scenes are vital to understanding Hathaway as a work, the interior decoration was handled better in the book but it calls back to the Count's philosophy (a year of suffering for one good day, constant manicuring of reality to sustain a happy fiction) that Gigi is pulling against and also contrasts the living conditions of the common man seen in HF1. Her monologue is an expansion of her rejection of the Count despite the pain she knows it will cause both of them, while also pushing her further into the "pulled into circumstance" feeling of a Lalah type character.
Please note, I'm not trying to clarify these to go "oh Hathaway perfect you can't criticise it" because I do get why some people fucking hate it (despite not being one of them), but I think that they hate it for the same reasons that Tomino long thought it would not be able to be adapted to TV or film. That is, it is kind of a shit mecha story, and more an interesting political/philosophical drama from a depressed dude in the late 80s that just happens to feature mechs. I personally found the apartment scenes disappointing as well, but not because "oh they are boring" but rather because they rushed through them and didn't show Gigi's own strength in her convictions as they do in the novel. If I had it my way, they would have been two or three minutes longer and more people would have hated them, but maybe it would have been clearer why they were in the film.

>>23874266
>>23874255

Yeah, I feel that. The way the decorating is presented in the film is kind of abrupt, but it makes narrative sense in establishing her in her 'natural' state of being cozy and high class, before her continued musing on the conflict draws her in.

>>23869987
get assr8ped unc