/m/ — Oshii's controversial ending for Patlabor

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>>23875309 (OP)
That's retarded

>>23875360
I disagree to be honest, Goto being the villain sounds like it could have been a cool almost twist ending

>>23875309 (OP)
This is an insane idea but if there's anyone who could make it work it would have been Oshii. Also it just sounds so batshit that I would have wanted to see it

>>23875367
Twists are supposed to make sense though

>>23875380
Goto is absolutely the kind of character that I think could make a believable sort of renegade defector

>>23875367
It's asinine. It makes no sense with any of his character.

>>23875384
If you ignore everything he said at the end of both patlabor 1 and 2 maybe.

>>23875393
>If you ignore everything he said at the end of both patlabor 1 and 2 maybe.
I think we're misremembering or misinterpreting what he said at the end of Patlabor 2 anon. At the end, he clearly understood Tsuge even if he disagreed with his methods

>>23875393
...What about Goto's character is oppositional to being a defector? If he thinks something within the Japanese government/JSDF is rotten, I feel like he could absolutely be convinced to go rogue. He has those principles of justice and the high ups in the police force always feared he couldn't be controlled

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>>23875405
>>23875405
>...What about Goto's character is oppositional to being a defector?
His strong commitment to an absolute sense of justice. if he's defecting it's because someone higher up is the actual bad guy. Their actions at the end of Patlabor 1 were literally defection if they didn't crack the code. You're idiots.

>>23875418
>someone higher up is the actual bad guy
nuclear energy

>>23875418
>someone higher up is the actual bad guy
And that would presumably be the point of Patlabor 3?

>haha yeah I once thought about doing X
>/m/: WTFFFF OSHII FUCKING HATES PATLABOR AND HIS IDEAS SUCK

>>23875439
These were pretty serious plans tho from Oshii for Patlabor 3

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this man??

>>23875424
Which would presumably mean he's not villain and his team wouldn't go against him.

>>23876012
Yes for some reason I think that Goto would have rootable, logical reasons to defect and the audience would probably have some sort of sympathy for him even if he was wrong lol. The possible internal conflict between the SV2 members after finding out what Goto was foing would also just feel like a likely story part of this sort of movie

>>23875418
>>23875424
I really don't think anyone high up could be so much of a bad guy that it makes Goto seem like the good guy while risking effectively nuking Japan. This shit really just doesn't make sense and people are trying to come up with any way to rationalize it cause they don't want to admit Oshii's idea just sucks ass. Feels like he wanted a twist just for the sake of having a twist and was going to try to force it to work no matter what, even if it borders on character assassination.

>>23876029
I really don't know why people don't think Goto following a Tsuge like path wouldn't make sense or be particularly difficult to rationalize. Not sure I understand what exactly doesn't make sense.
It's a totally feasible way I can see Goto's character being taken>>23875405
There's nothing inherently about the idea that " sucks ass " let alone be character assassination. Now it's possible it could be if poorly executed, but the concept itself is definitely workable.

>>23876029
>This shit really just doesn't make sense and people are trying to come up with any way to rationalize it
I think it's the other way around, you are just using this interview to shit on Oshii like you usually do with other shit.

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>>23876034
>I really don't know why people don't think Goto following a Tsuge like path wouldn't make sense or be particularly difficult to rationalize.
Because we've seen him diametrically oppose Tsuge on a profound philosophical level.
>>23876038
Using the words people say is a great way to point out when they're dumb!

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>>23876045
>diametrically oppose Tsuge on a profound philosophical level
Does he? This is much more applicable to Arakawa than Tsuge to me. The latter was a sniveling, backstabbing crook with no real ideals. Goto and Tsuge seemed like they were posed as two sides of the same coin in second Patlabor film.

>>23876045
Yeah you are being more than dumb.

>>23876055
Sorry I meant former as in Arakawa was the one who was a sniveling, backstabbing crook with no real ideals.

>>23876060
>>23876055
Show me any thing on Goto's character that would make him turn. Literally anything. You're just sitting there going IT MIGHT WORK based on nothing.

>>23876062
It's all up to the writers at the time, this is like saying "SHOW ME HOW CHAR COULD HAVE MOMMY ISSUES THIS IS OUT OF NOWHERE HE WOULD NEVER SAY LALAH COULD'VE BEEN A MOTHER TO HIM" when watching Zeta.

>>23876062
Goto is basically characterized as someone whos' willing to engage in Machiavellian, even underhanded actions if it means following his principles of justice. The police force upper brass is basically written to fear his potential as a stronger force. I think this is totally strong basis to make him a sort of renegade character

My issue with this idea is, even setting aside concepts like individual characterization, that it doesn't really fit the scale of the stories told in the series, at least in my opinion. Obviously by the nature of the films being films the characters have to get wrapped up in increasingly dramatic events, but that usually just comes down to the fact that they're the police and this stuff is just happening in Tokyo. Any interpersonal reasons driving the story tend to be more tangential, at least as far as the overarching "main plot" goes. Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is that SV2 are too underdog coded for one of them to haul off and play that significant of a role in something like international terrorism. Maybe one of them has connections to someone who does, sure, that makes sense, but actually being one? Eh.

>>23876082
>coded
Stopped reading right there.

>>23876084
I usually stop at the period.

>>23876082
I disagree actually, part of the conceit of SV2 is that they're underdog characters in positions of authority. Goto going rogue could very well retain that sort of upstart yet also impactful element of the story especially coming from him of all characters

>>23876088
Logistically it makes sense, I'll admit. As in, these sort of people have to come from somewhere, right? Rather that it being an argument about his character in particular, though, I guess I'm thinking more about the character of the group as a whole. If you take any individual episode of the show the stakes are stuff like, oh no, what are we going to eat for lunch? Then sometimes shit gets real, they are cops after all, the movies have higher stakes and the personal stakes can even go so far as to have them be intimately involved in whatever is happening, provided it makes logical sense. Guy in the army was one of their teachers at school or whatever? Makes total sense. And of course there is something to be said about subverting all of that, but I don't know. It'd be like watching 100 episodes of a mostly low stakes police procedural set in Brooklyn and then one of the characters suddenly becomes a hijacker on 9/11.

>>23876088
I feel that Goto would probably hesitate under most conditions, since if he just pulled up stakes without a good reason, he would invariably screw over his team. The only way it would make sense to me is if it was set up that the government got taken over in a couple (i.e patlabor 2 but without the restraint), and the CIA/US taking advantage to kneecap the japs while they're down (let's say in this setting the crash doesn't happen yet due to the labor boom, and the US decides to help launch a coup, then backstab it to fuck over the japs and assassinate some engineers and politicians in the process, perhaps with China also falling in timeline during the irl tienamen square protests into civil war). To do that though it would probably have to work in a longer plotline, not a movie. You would have to have it be a part of a larger format, and slowly slide it in before SHTF, and have the main cast be in a basically hopelessly fucked position.

>>23876082
It's probably possible from a writing perspective to do it, if it's one cohesive story. Have it start out as it does in the TV or manga, go through the arcs already done, while dropping a few hints here and there that things might be closed to getting fucked (news on China, ties to US glowie fuckery, economic and political concerns in the background), then have SHTF with a coup attempt (backed by glowies) , and have it devolve over a long, drawn out period. From there it can go into multiple directions, anywhere from what happened in Patlabor 2 to the cast getting picked off like Halo Reach in a depressing fuckfest (except Noa and Asuma, maybe). It would have to be set up just right though, since if done poorly would be embarrassing. Having Goto desperately trying to keep his team safe during such a shitshow, knowing exactly what's going on but not being able to do anything about it, would be interesting.

>>23876094
It would probably be better to have Goto desperately try to stop something, and get the Yang Wenli treatment. Have him try his best, then get shot in the chest and bleed out in a ditch or hallway by some glowies as his team tries to escape to fight another day.

>>23876029
All I know about oshii
Every single one of his movies
>Someone looks at the horizon while smoking
>Spouts borderline platitudinous philosphy between pulls
>Everything is lacking in color
It's like he took hayao miyazakis obsession with fantastical artsy bullshit and channeled all that into pretending to be a French noir director
Fuck him

>>23876180
UY Beautiful Dreamer has none of this and is one of the most colorful movies I've ever watched so this is very retarded

>>23876184
Well I watched
>Patlabor 1
>Patlabor 2
>Jin roh
>Both gits
So 5 movies of that tryhard shit was good enough of me

>>23876009
Why does he have the car from "You're under arrest"?

>>23876208
He needs the scooter.

>>23876190
Not my or Oshii's fault you're incredibly dumb

>>23876190
Zoomers deserve the current state of the world and worse.

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>>23875380
This.

>>23875380
>>23876683
Goto's whole thing is "Old renegade guy who bends the rules because the organization he belongs to is ineffective or corrupt" it would totally be in character for him to do something like what Oshii proposed.

>>23876773
His begrudging admiration of the villain Hoba in Patlabor 1 certainly frames him that way.

>>23875380
Being cucked by an old man broke his mind

>>23875309 (OP)
People just lack such imagination or just hate Oshii enough to not recognize that this would be both a logical and very cool concept

>>23875309 (OP)
I honestly don’t know what how I’d feel about that twist had it been made instead of the patlabor 3 we got, I guess oshii made the right call because I’m not entirely sure what would have become of SV2 after that

>>23877012
I think so as well but it would have to be set up right. Goto would probably not make a move that screws over the sv2 team unless it's absolutely necessary or unavoidable (in his mind at least). It would be more likely that he would be forced to react to something genuinely fucking up not on his end (coup, CIA, war, etc). His team and his care for them is probably the one thing holding him back, even if fully disillusioned.

>>23877085
>but it would have to be set up right
That's true of any plot worth discussing.

>>23875309 (OP)
Patlabor 2 was already garbage so I wouldn't have seen 3 anyway

Wouldn't this be Patlabor 4?

>>23877751
I was thinking the same but this was thought up on as a follow up to 2 back in the mid to late 90s as the series finale

>>23875309 (OP)
I want to read this interview

>>23877751
>>23877755
>american reading comprehension

>>23876029
>Goto seem like the good guy while risking effectively nuking Japan.
Excatly, this would never make sense.

>>23878569
Am I wrong? I literally said that this must’ve been his idea for a patlabor 3

On the one hand, that sounds so stupid, on the other, it's Master Oshii.

>attacks on nuclear power plants
green propaganda

I could see a way to make a Patlabor TNG-ish thing where we find out at the end that the terrorist who was the real brains behind it "Ramon" took his name from pro wrestling... because in a former life he was "razor sharp",
and it turns out he's taking on an even more corrupt baddie boss cop
but yeah it would take really good writing and def not nuking Japan like holding a detonator and yelling at the gal cop "THATS NO ALPHONSE, GIRL, NO ALPHONSE"