This thread is for talking about railways, and things related to railways, in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - that means we're all about big intercity trains, modest rural trains, long freight trains, trips, tracks, trams, subways, stations, you get the idea. Trains are cool.
If you're planning a journey, take a look at the nationalrail.co.uk/ journey planner - tell it where you're headed from and to, and it'll show you your options before handing you over to a train company so you can buy a ticket. Doesn't matter which train company, they'll all charge the same price for the same seat on the same journey. Overseas visitors - trip.com and thetrainline.com are your best option.
Here's a few links: ~New rolling stock currently on order, listed (trainlogger.co.uk/units/) ~A Visual History of Railway Rolling Stock in Great Britain (gaelan.me/br-stock/) ~The Man in Seat 61 (seat61.com/) - easily the best rail travel resource out there. ~Geoff Marshall (youtube.com/@geofftech2) - likes trains. Mostly harmless. ~Jago Hazzard (youtube.com/@jagohazzard) - London train history. Ditto.
...and some cool 'open data' stuff: ~Realtimetrains (realtimetrains.co.uk/) - live train timetables: ideal for keeping on top of ETAs and platforms. ~Openrailwaymap (openrailwaymap.org/) - not quite 'Google Maps for railway infrastructure', but close. ~TIGER (https://tiger.worldline.global/home/) - live departure boards. ~Traksy (traksy.uk/live/) - live signalling information. ~London Underground Live (www.londonunderground.live/) - a real-time, geographically-accurate Tube map.
What's happening? ~The railway is being put into public ownership: gov.uk/guidance/great-british-railways/ ~Phase One of High Speed 2 (Birmingham-London): hs2.org.uk/ ~The Transpennine Route Upgrade - upgrading & electrifying the Liverpool-York mainline: thetrupgrade.co.uk/ ~The Midland Main Line electrification (no website...) ~The East Coast Digital Programme: nextgenerationrailway.co.uk/
What's in the news lately? ~Labour nationalises Rod Stewart's railway, despite the star's protests (thedailymash.co.uk/politics/labour-nationalises-rod-stewarts-railway-20250529257401/) ~First HS2 platforms installed at Old Oak Common station (mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/first-platforms-for-britains-new-high-speed-railway-installed-at-old-oak-common-station/) ~The Great Northern route is now entirely 'digitally signalled' (networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/great-northern-route-to-city-of-london-transformed-into-uks-first-signals-free-commuter-railway/) ~Network Rail are looking to replace the ageing 'yellow fleet' - including the Flying Banana (newcivilengineer.com/latest/network-rail-engages-on-1-2bn-contract-to-replace-yellow-fleet-with-new-monitoring-tech-12-05-2025/) ~New London-Stirling open-access service due to launch next year (https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/71488/new-london-stirling-service-expected-to-launch-mid-2026/)
Cool stuff to do: ~lner.co.uk/our-destinations/popular-destinations/trains-to-york/things-to-do-in-york/ - take a trip at 125mph from King's Cross to York. Make sure to spend an hour or two in the National Railway Museum near York station, and take in York Castle and the city's Viking history exhibits afterward. ~avantiwestcoast.co.uk/where-we-go/destination-guides/lake-district/ - journey through the Dales into Oxenholme, and go mountain biking through the gorgeous natural scenery of the Lake District national park. ~www.sleeper.scot/destination/ftw/ - take the Caledonian Sleeper from London to Fort William, then change onto the westcoastrailways.co.uk/jacobite/steam-train-trip/ Jacobite steam train that'll take you over the famous Glenfinnan 'Harry Potter viaduct'. ~scenicrailbritain.com/lines/st-ives-bay-line/ - the St Ives Bay Line will take you to the sandy beaches of Cornwall. ~cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caerphilly-castle/ - visit the largest castle in Wales, a short walk from the station.
...always annoys me that this board's software doesn't recognise the home nations' TLDs.
Anyway, this thread's book recommendation is The Subterranean Railway, by Christian Wolmar. Much like the author's other work, this is a social history, rather than lists of dates and engineering specifications - this time of how the London Underground came about in the first place, developed under a succession of geniuses and dodgy characters, declined post-WW2 into the 1950s, and somehow stuck around from Eden to Thatcher to become one of the world's finest urban transit networks.
As you'd expect, other than the stuff everyone knows already (London clay! Metro-land! Harry Beck's Tube map! Everyone's favourite anti-hero, Charles Tyson Bloody Yerkes!), the entertaining stuff is the shit that was flung at the wall that didn't quite stick - or how they actually got permission and funding before spades hit dirt - or how some things (NIMBYism, constant rows over financing and construction) truly never change. It's good. Go read it.
Six HS2 platforms at Old Oak Common seems a little low. Seems to be a severe lack of future-proofing. By contrast, the new high-speed through-station in Stuttgart has 8.
>>2043132 ...and here are the 29 platforms that puts everything you like to shame. For shame.
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)21:50:53
(putting hand to ear) What's that? Apples and oranges? Oh.
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)21:51:37
>>2043133 Is this some weird consequence of rural Chinese taking forever to board during major holiday migrations?
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)22:11:45
>>2043135 Pass. Still, one of my favourite CR anecdotes is that they used to run double-decker intercity trains as a matter of course back in the nineties, but by the turn of the millennium they'd been phased out in favour of conventional single-deck coaches, for the usual reasons - you get better return on your investment by improving the track, segregating traffic and running fast, long, frequent single-deck passenger trains instead, particularly at older stations with high passenger counts where you can't just plonk down a dozen or so new platforms (sound familiar?).
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)22:11:51
>>2043135 It's a consequence of good old fashioned despot monument building
...anyway, it's interesting to note that Phase One of HS2 has progressed to the stage where it's visible from space for pretty much its entire length. Switch to satellite view, turn off labels, scroll out a little bit, and there it is: all the way from London down to the outskirts of Birmingham.
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)22:41:15
>>2043141 American here. I have the sense that the worst NIMBYism in the UK is in rural south England. Seems to me that future extensions of HS2 northwards should be easier. Not easy, but easier.
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Anonymous06/08/25(Sun)22:44:45
>>2043144 Probably an easier 'sell' if there's an operational railway to begin with: like how they used to electrify A to B, then C to D, and oh wouldn't you know it, think of the overall benefits if we were to electrify B to C!
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Anonymous06/09/25(Mon)14:42:39
>>2042295
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Anonymous06/09/25(Mon)17:17:54
>>2043141 I like that they're clearly pressing ahead with at least passive provision for Phase 2 ... which I'm of the opinion will be built, as designed, eventually, just a quarter-century behind schedule. God only knows as regards twiddly bits like the Golbourne link and so on.
>>2043137 unfortunately, all the logic and hard data in the observable universe means nothing to weaselly knobheads like this. who've decided that they want double-decker trains; there's no fundamental issue preventing double-deckers from existing that cannot be overcome somehow; and thus the reason they aren't on a double-decker right now is because the train companies are all incompetent. like you may as well go outside and talk to trees instead, and you'd have more chance of a decent conversation
Two new Class 99s turned up in Bristol today, to go into service with GB Railfreight by the end of the year. The other 28 making up the rest of the fleet are to follow by this time next year.
>Your View is an amazing opportunity to enjoy a 360 degree, uninterrupted panorama view of the Edinburgh and Fife coastline as you have never seen them before - from 361 feet up atop the iconic Forth Bridge! >Your View is always an event to remember. Over the last six years, we've welcomed 6,321 adventurous visitors, assisted by 290 volunteers, raised £382,000, and even had 11 proposals on the bridge! >In 2024, we raised over £55k for Barnardo's Scotland, which went towards our Employability, Training and Skills work providing employability support and training for young people, and our Child Poverty Campaign to help support children and their families in our services throughout Scotland. This event would not be possible without the generous support of Network Rail, Balfour Beatty and the Briggers to whom we are extremely grateful.
>https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/great-british-railways-in-action-passengers-benefit-from-track-and-train-being-united-on-south-eastern-railway >Southeastern and Network Rail Kent Route have united under a single leadership team to drive investment and efficiency and deliver for passengers and freight in an important step towards Great British Railways (GBR). Further regional arrangements will come into place as other services transfer into public ownership. >Operating as the South Eastern Railway team, and overseen by Managing Director Steve White, the streamlined structure will allow for a more responsive railway with a common purpose and clear accountability for railway performance across the network.
Nicked from Reddit: from the press launch of the Railway 200 'Inspiration' train at Paddington, featuring the world's cleanest Class 66 loco and ... it's probably a little underwhelming in the flesh. Love the Big Four logos though.
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Anonymous07/02/25(Wed)07:25:07
>GWR’s battery trains trials could bring big benefits to small lines >https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/gwrs-battery-trains-trials-could-bring-big-benefits-to-small-lines-82169/ >At the moment, the cost of a diesel train is approximately £2.60 per mile, compared to 57p per mile for overhead-powered electric trains. Battery trains cost the same per mile, but avoid the upfront electrification costs, which average around £4.15 per train mile. >GWR is now working on the assumption that a fast charger is needed every 100km of railway, at a cost of around £1.3 million. Therefore, the total cost of ownership of a battery train service would be just £2.52 per train mile.
...mixing and matching units (pence, pounds, miles, km...), but the figures come from the linked GWR white paper. Assuming they work for branch lines that haven't a hope of making their money back from the farebox, the numbers look good ... God help us if the DfT decide catenaries must be pulled down in the name of cost savings lol
As everyone seem to have ideas about extending the Waterloo & City Line, I’ll throw my hat into the ring.
You make the line to Bank a spur, add a station near to Cannon Street (City?) or a bit further along, the continue the line to Fenchurch Street.
Fenchurch St gets a tube connection, double the platforms in the City, more demand outside of the peaks. You can even have 3 shuttles between Waterloo- Bank/City and Fenchurch St-City
Either that or have turn backs past the platforms and Waterloo to allow 2 trains in platforms whilst the 3rd is turned around
I know it will probably never happen as TfL have bigger fish to fry, but the crayon chewer in me likes it
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Anonymous07/05/25(Sat)07:41:50
>>2047304 as pointed out by a certain youtuber, this always, always feels like an 'I am compelled to fiddle with this thing in order to satisfy my own brainworms' rather than solving a tangible, IRL problem. go too far down that road and you end up litigating driverless trains and arguing about definitions of 'tube map' and uggghhhhhh
>>2047400 Yeah I get you. It's very tempting if you're enthusiastic about the Underground, or transit in general to see a good thing and add to it. I understand the W&C is the way it is for good reasons. Extending from Bank north runs into other tunnels/ BoE vaults. Extending south from Waterloo puts more bodies onto trains that need the capacity from Waterloo. Widening tunnels and extending platforms needs tunnelling and costs £££.
But it does make me wonder how the new 2024 stock will fit, the W&C uses half length trains. I guess they either extend the platforms or take IM & KM sections out to make the new trains fit.
>https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/greater-manchester-mayor-tables-underground-rail-network-for-city-region-10-07-2025/ >Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham has put forward a proposal to build an underground rail network for the city region. >Burnham said: “We will need infrastructure on a bigger scale to cope. >“It’s not a throwaway line. I am deadly serious. >“I want TfGM to start preparing the original, first concept for what an underground for Manchester might look like. I’m going to open the earliest conversation with the government on what the funding mechanism will look like.” >No dates of when a full proposal might be brought forward were given but Burnham was confident detailed plans involving costs and intended works will be put together by 2030.
Has anyone here travelled on the Caledonian Sleeper and willing to share your experience on it? Planning a trip south and wondering if the novelty of it and the benefit of travelling while sleeping is worth it over just flying or taking an LNER train down the ECML.
>>2048200 I've used it for a return between London and Inverness a couple of years ago, then again between London and Edinburgh for the Tattoo + Fringe last year, so even as a trainsexual I feel like I've thoroughly got it out of my system.
The experience is fine - like the Eurostar, once you take off the Youtube sheen it's just a train journey, in this case that you happen to go to sleep on - I'd say go for it, if only for the novelty, and see how you feel. Don't go for the seats, they're only there so they can say 'tickets from £30'.
Random thoughts: - going south it'll be empty, coming north it'll be ram-jam - by the time the trains leave their stations it'll be dark, even in August: the only scenery you'll have chance to take in is in the early morning from your cabin window, either rural-ish Scotland (going north) or lower WCML industrial parks (going south) - the Sleeper lounge at Euston is one of the better station lounges out there - shame it's exclusive to the 'room with a shower' cabins - normal room pro: bog-standard Sleeper experience. con: means you're either beginning the day with a strategic sink shower, or asking the onboard staff for a 'shower token' to use at your destination - 'room with a shower' pro: breakfast's included, novelty of a warm shower on a moving train. con: hearing the flush from a neighbouring berth - whatever you do, make sure you reserve a cabin in the middle of the carriage, so you're not over a bogie - food on board's not terrible, as far as microwaveable ready meals go
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Anonymous07/11/25(Fri)20:57:54
as it happens I've just finished Agatha Christie's Murder on the Orient Express - you know, _the_ 'golden age of international sleeper train travel' story - and it's amusing to me how many passengers seem to need 'sleeping draughts' or some other form of narcotic, to tolerate overnight journeys
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Anonymous07/11/25(Fri)21:07:16
>>2043144 Yes, as a Transport Planne, Nimbyism plus midern crony capital corrupt plus Tories, added 30bn to a budget to buikt needless tunnels.
the people that won, are the same idiots that then praise Switzerlands panoramic comfy train stock
Rail in Britain will forever be cucked until a stable government gives DfT proper recruiting and ORR, RSSB AND RAIB work with comfy teams in some form of train desus.
jyst look at who runs these orgs and it's nepotism, toffs, Masons, for some reason, Economics Graduates aalso: >Portillo and Grayling are mega bellends
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Anonymous07/11/25(Fri)21:47:00
>>2048212 I'd relocate the ORR outside the South East. Let the fuckers see just how much of a pain in the ass their goldplating is.
>>2048197 There isn't enough money (that the Treasury are willing to release) for a full network.
They're better off building a tunnelled route bypassing the Castlefield Corridor (e.g. Piccadilly - St Peter's Square - Salford) that they can increase the capacity on that section. Also, adding the curve back at Ardwick Junction would allow services between Piccadilly and Victoria, or Picc trains North/East and Vic South without needing Castlefield.
Both of those, or even quadrupling Castlefield and adding Platform 15/16 at Piccadilly should be considered before an Underground/ heavy Metro system.
>>20482112 That and don't forget £100m+ for a bat tunnel, to protect ~300 bats in the wood. That's ~£330k per bat. They would've been better off spending a fraction of that money buying land the other side of the woods from HS2 and re-wilding it so the bats have more habitat.
>>2048432 >Both of those, or even quadrupling Castlefield and adding Platform 15/16 at Piccadilly should be considered before an Underground/ heavy Metro system. True, but, you're thinking from a national perspective. Mr. Burnham is, of course, thinking from a local perspective for local people ... also why he's been banging the drum, hard, for a Manchester HS2 station that isn't, delicately speaking, built to Treasury standards.
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Anonymous07/13/25(Sun)14:41:10
>>2048432 Burnham seems to be thinking of something along the lines of a Manchester S-Bahn...
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Anonymous07/13/25(Sun)20:02:25
>>2048459 >>2048464 Agreed, he's mayor of Greater Manchester, and wants to make noise about his county.
If it isn't already in place, the best new transit idea for TfGM would be a radial Metrolink route, or Superloop style bus services. Both of which could connect the boroughs without needing to go into the centre and back out again.
>>2048459 >a Manchester HS2 station that isn't, delicately speaking, built to Treasury standards. I mean, why not dream big? Let's quad-track the Castlefield corridor: and then while the city centre is going to be a construction site for a decade or so, let's reopen Mayfield as Manchester's HS2 station to boot. Fuck it, let's join Mayfield to the Corridor while we're at it, thus solving the 'how to get HS2 to Liverpool' issue as well as offering a high-speed domestic service between two of the country's biggest cities.
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Anonymous07/17/25(Thu)20:46:12
>https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/orr-network-rail-delivering-efficiently-cost-pressures-remain-and-industry-must-keep >ORR: Network Rail delivering efficiently, but cost pressures remain and industry must keep focus on safety throughout rail reform >The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has delivered its assessment of Great Britain’s railway in its annual reports released today (Thursday 17 July). ORR highlights that Britain’s railway remains one of the safest in Europe and the industry has made good progress in a number of areas, including taking action to address overdue structure assessments and dealing with weather-related risk, although this has been delivered in the context of focussed regulatory attention. However, clear issues remain with record high rail cancellations, the majority of which are attributed to train operating companies, and financial challenges for Network Rail.
Mildly interesting. Weather risk, a weird series of level crossing issues, cost pressures through inflation, still a safe railway to use. Sort of a, 'keep on keeping on' kind of thing.
Looks like the new I-forget-what-it's-called wayfinding scheme signage is going in at Clapham Junction, and it looks really smart when done with a little thought and care.
https://vimeo.com/1095076736
'One, single, consistent signage across the entire railway' is probably a pipe dream, especially with three decades of private operation having scattered that concept to the seven seas, but, still. It's a start.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n54MALw5aDc >https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/the-big-reveal-hs2-to-showcase-train-interior-design-development >Rail enthusiasts heading to Alstom’s The Greatest Gathering event in Derby this weekend (1-3 August) will have the opportunity to see the concept designs for HS2’s Class 895 trains. >The design features include: >A generous seat pitch – with more leg room than any other standard class UK train >Improved overhead and beneath the seat luggage storage, recognising that passengers prefer to have their possessions close by >Baby changing tables, clothing/bag hooks and a pull-down child seat in toilet cubicles, reflecting feedback from families travelling with small children >Saloon seats with a spacious dropdown tray table and a separate shelf to stand phones on when viewing video content >Multiple power and charging options including 3-pin plugs and USB-C >Redesigned horizontal bike storage, which maximises space and makes it quicker and easier for cyclists to board and alight >The bogies will be manufactured in Crewe, the bodyshell welding and electrical installation will be completed in County Durham, and the interior fit out will be completed at the Hitachi-Alstom High Speed joint venture facility in Derby.
They've taken care to point out that these aren't the final seats, these aren't the final colours, and there's been multiple changes to the structure of the train since the mockups were built, mostly around feedback from the handicapped ... so pleased that they actually went and built mockups for people to walk around and bang their heads on the overhead racks, rather than monging out about VIRTUAL REALITY.
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Anonymous07/29/25(Tue)16:55:34
Missed the boat for tickets to the Greatest Gathering. Oh well.
A handful more open access operations will run from next year as well - nothing earth-shaking, just the existing operators getting a little larger slice of the pie: a couple of extra Grand Central services from Bradford and Wakefield to London, an extra Hull Trains service between Hull and London, and Lumo are extending a handful of their services to Glasgow via Edinburgh, in addition to a few more Newcastle runs
I think it's all something to do with the long, long, long overdue timetable recast they're planning for the ECML for December - if memory serves Grand Central were after buying new 80x trains contingent on expanding their services, and I think Lumo have taken over the KGX-GLC service from LNER
>>2049659 Teething trouble with the signalling, apparently: >https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2025/02/08/new-dlr-train-introduction-saga-continues/ >“While there had been earlier challenges discovered during the testing of the new trains, we were implementing a plan to address these. >“But the discovery of the signalling issue means that further detailed analysis and software modifications need to take place. We are working hard to bring the new trains into service as soon as possible.” I vaguely remember hearing something about the new trains randomly overshooting platforms, might just be online chatter though. God knows they're sorely needed, heading towards Canning Town it's like you're doing the hula if you're standing.
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Anonymous08/03/25(Sun)12:28:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3SC92cC4I
Love this. Delta Junction at dusk, eerily stark + beautiful on a warm summer's night.
Nicked from one of the brainmelts over at Railuk, taken at the Greatest Gathering: the current plan - who knows if it'll change down the line - for seating arrangements on HS2's Class 895s. 8x25m coaches make up a single 200m unit, which will be run doubled-up as a complete 16-coach 400m train. Whispers are that the platform edge doors at HS2 stations are being binned, but, again, who knows.
Doesn't look like there's anything out of this world going on - dedicated bike storage and buggy storage? OK then - and I'm half-wondering if there's a miniature galley at the first-class end - otherwise *shrug*
>>2050069 I've not heard good things regarding the attendees. Absolutely cracking open day, don't get me wrong: well organised, basically an airshow for trains -- the issue being enthusiasts publicly melting down, causing a fuss about bags at the entrance, refusing to queue neatly for the stuff everyone wanted to see (43s, 91s, Tornado etc) and if you can believe it, vandalising the fucking exhibits (literal BAZZA WOZ ERE tags, nicking lamps and stuff). Death to the wooly-hat-and-camera brigade, each and every last one of them. Absolutely shameful behaviour from grown adults
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Anonymous08/03/25(Sun)22:58:50
>>2050435 Where have you heard this? Everywhere I have looked has everyone giving glowing reviews with complaints about the lack of seating and the price of food.
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Anonymous08/05/25(Tue)17:33:25
NRM at the Gathering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_MGLxhQi0I
(I'm honestly surprised there's not been a Jago or a Geoff video on the topic yet)
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Anonymous08/05/25(Tue)20:12:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInF4GqcRow
Which one of you is this?
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Anonymous08/06/25(Wed)17:35:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7YJgA3fIE
New Piccadilly Line trains are on test ... shame this appears to have been filmed by a potato.
>https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/virgin-orders-12-alstom-trains-eurostar-challenge/ >Virgin Trains has agreed a deal with French manufacturer Alstom for 12 new high-speed trains as part of its plan to compete with Eurostar on cross-Channel routes from 2030. >The company’s submission to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) confirms it has secured binding exclusivity for the Avelia Stream model — the latest generation of the Pendolino tilting trains that Virgin introduced to the UK’s West Coast Main Line two decades ago. Similar trains are already in service in Sweden and Italy. >Virgin’s proposal outlines services from London St Pancras to Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam, with longer-term ambitions to extend further into France, Germany, and Switzerland. The venture will be led by Phil Whittingham, former boss of Virgin Trains UK.
>Construction to start next year on the first part of the Crossrail 2 railway >https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/construction-to-start-next-year-on-part-of-the-crossrail-2-railway-83248/
...disingenuous shit, it's just the British Library extension that'll leave a void for the Crossrail 2 station that'll eventually, maybe, probably, end up being built in situ. But, yes, technically it's CR2 infrastructure.