/sci/ — Is indeterminism a form of cope

Free will has a makeup like anything else in existence. It will always be an illusion or construct of a kind. You still struggle ordering sandwiches. Choice isn’t infinite and you can’t just choose to be a turtle.

>>16958203
Neither is believing that things literally come out of fucking bum fuck nowhere

>>16958190 (OP)
> WHY do people think that free will is Lolsorandom?
Religious tier thinking. It’s akin to believing nothing came before God. Perhaps there -is- basest essence to existence, somewhere down the line, but it surely isn’t quantum randomness. I doubt it’s something humans can ever assess.

>>16958190 (OP)
Ok look if you just divide the size of goalpost in the size of the ball you will know where the ball will go in to the exact point if you just simulate all points as once

>>16958190 (OP)
Lol YUP

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>>16958190 (OP)
These fucking people…….

>>16960735
kek

>>16960735
Depressing stuff

.

>>16958190 (OP)
Indeterminism is a form of hope

>>16965268
Touché

>>16958190 (OP)
It is lingering trait of the religious mind. Humans truly see themselves as divine. Or at least in tune with it. In tune in such a way as to be separate from the inseparable. Hm.

>>16967019
Because we are, retard.

>>16958190 (OP)
Yes.

>>16958190 (OP)
He looks Jewish.

>>16958190 (OP)
>How is this not a form of cope?
It's not coping with anything. You're just getting filtered by a high-IQ scientist pointing out a glaring fault and an internal inconsistency in your worldview.

>>16960735
Gay.

>>16970609
fk jew gon do boudit?

>>16960735
It's shocking the absolute slop many physics professors indulge in.

>>16958190 (OP)
Yes

>>16972860
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

>>16958190 (OP)
he's criticising superdeterminism wherein all our statistical experiments are just coincident with a false result

>>16976120
He's pointing out that belief in determinism amounts to a denial of the capacity for reason.

>>16976120
>wherein all our statistical experiments are just coincident with a false result
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

>>16958190 (OP)
i don't understand this line of thinking. science is about synchronizing information in a closed system (our brain) with information from the outside (the world/observational things), nothing about superdeterminism, standard determinism, or non-determinism changes that reality. people like Anton would absolutely squirm if they studied something like behavorial biology.

>>16976146
>i don't understand this line of thinking.
It's simple: under the determinist religion it is perfectly possible that you are predetermined to always ask the wrong questions, get misleading answers, reach bogus conclusion and be obliviously satisfied with them. You are not free to apply reasoned judgment under determinist ideology.

>>16976148
under no circumstance is subjective probability ever 1, so i do not see how this is relevent even in determinist or superdeterminist contexts

>>16976156
>under no circumstance is subjective probability ever 1
What is this pseudbabble supposed to mean?

>>16976160
not pseudbabble, just grade school probability theory. there is no 100% certainty about any observation, except perhaps trivially true things (i.e. things exist, observations can be made, etc. but even those are observations that can be wrong). nothing about determinism changes the reality that all observations have uncertainty, even if the likelihood of uncertainty approaches epsilon

>>16976165
>nothing about determinism changes the reality that all observations have uncertainty
It does, though, as you've conceded by making up pseud terminology about "subjective probability" in a world where anything has a probability of exactly 0 or exactly 1.

>>16960735
This guy masturbates to n public, and I've told him as much on Quora

>>16976146
Thinking you're a legitimate scientist in a deterministic universe is like thinking you're a legitimate detective in an interrogation room where the suspect puts all the questions in your mouth.

>>16976174
dunning, meet >>16976186 kruger

>>16976262
I was just telling you what the idea you admitted to getting filtered by was, no need to seethe at me.

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>>16976186
>thinking in a deterministic universe

>>16958190 (OP)
i can't determine that.

>>16976186
>Thinking you're a legitimate scientist in a deterministic universe is like thinking you're a legitimate detective in an interrogation room where the suspect puts all the questions in your mouth.
I guess that works out if the universe is God's intelligible clockwork design, which God intended for you to figure out. Just more proof that determinism is a Christian doctrine.

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>>16958190 (OP)
>and that could guide our questions such that we arrive at a false picture of nature
Why would it do that? I would rather assume that if there was no free will and everything was determined then every question and every answer would be equally correct, since predetermined interactions would lead to predetermined outputs, so there would be no "incorrect" answers, rather you would get exactly what you asked for.

>>16977800
>my IQ is 75 by the way

Duh

>>16960735
I can’t even fathom how or what these people go through to reach such a point in their lives where they cope this hard.

>>16958190 (OP)
For the most part yes

too many i love science redittors here

>>16960735
What????

Without religion what moral consensus would you have upon which to build a society?
The concepts of good and evil are inherently rooted in religion, nature is amoral thusly devoid if good and evil.

>well just write our own moral code
Congratulations, you just discovered state-religion.

To further nail the point home, without freewill no one is accountable for their actions meaning a collapse in morality and the structures of power that depend upon their moral legitimacy to be an authority.
When you deny God, your reject that morality framework, so how do i know you dont believe in eating babies and killing people.

>>16986144
I thought /sci/ were smarter than this, even /x/ understands this concept better than /sci/.

>>16988465
Free will, determinism, consciousness...these topics are beyond most STEMfags and engineers. Only high IQ and some schizos obsess over metaphysics topics like these.

If you ever have been around "smart" engineers and PhDtards, you will know most of them are stupid as fuck but they can pass classes for a degree and job.

>>16988492
The overwhelming majority of philosophers are determinists.

>>16990071
>the overwhelming majority of philosophically minded aren’t stupid
God I hope so.

>>16990071
>The overwhelming majority of philosophers are determinists.
You hallucinated this deterministically because you're a nonsentient object.

>>16988492
>>16988465
desu, I do think that in the same way that the /x/ tard can be smarter than you think.

actually knowing stuff to be a good STEMfag is good for the soul in some way , its problably a dynamic we need to break away from in some way , but it does balance itself out, other than STEMfags having all the money and success of course. (if we ignore wierd uses of manifestation).

>>16991215
for the record, I am just a /x/ fag that tries to meditate on what science is ment to be, completly disconected with this thread and board, I am saying this, because I think a slap fight is going to happen against one of the anons, I am responding too.

>>16990071
Most modern philosophers are frauds too scared of losing their academic tenures to explore ideas outside of those accepted by mainstream materialism.

>>16991345
This is all fantasy fiction. Materialist determinism has been a fringe anti-science ideology for the last 60 years at least.

>>16991345
If you mean they are they are determined to be unthinking slave chattel turned out by government indoctrination camps, I agree.

Nazi Germany philosophers: all work to justify nazi propaganda (ubermensch, race theory and other deranged shit)
Soviet philosophers: all work to justify soviet propaganda (Marxist dogmatics, atheism, vulgar materialism, mindless lunacy recited by people who know that they are talking bullshit to people who know that they are talking bullshit)
Modern US philosophers: all work to justify the current thing propaganda (negative of the nazi race theories, abortion as the highest virtue, transgenderism, all utterly deranged)

Why is philosophy like that? What the fuck is wrong with you people? Why can't you be like Ancient Greeks?
This makes me think that philosophy as a field of study is truly finished, and has been for a long time. And people who call themselves philosophers now are just propaganda workers dressed up as academics to boost views.

>>16991782
If you wanted modern philosophers to behave like greeks, you would expect endless homages to capeshit as a grounding for all good.

>>16991791
even that would be better than the last 100 years of public self humiliation