/tg/ — /awg/ ⟅Alternative Wargames General⟆

>>98159725 (OP)

>TQ

Probably OPR, because most wargamers have 40k miniatures and it allows for them to use said 40k miniatures.

>>98159744
Isn't Age of Sigmarine: Spearhead alternative activations too? Someone at GW is bound to take notes of OPR's rise to popularity.

>>98159744
>it allows for them to use said 40k miniatures
That's true for 97,5% of alternative wargames so it's can't be the sole reason for OPR's popularity.
>>98159751
>Someone at GW is bound to take notes of OPR's rise to popularity
AA is the standard for ages now. GW sticks to their archaic system only for the sake of having their own gimmick. Same is true for their fetishisation of True Line of Sight but this one seems to be cracking with the changes introduced in the upcoming new edition.

>>98159342
The game is fun. What did you end up picking up?

>>98159770
You are correct, OPR wasn't the first to say "hey it's miniature agnostic, bring whatever you have". However they moght have been the very first to say outloud "bring your James Workslop minis, we have ready to play profiles for every models of every factions" or something close enough.

From the get-go OPR wasn't marketed as a kitchen sink setting but as GW alt games

>>98159783
I kind of miss One Page 40K, it was focused on simplifying it back to early 2000s levels of models. Now it’s about finding new special rules to squeeze the most out of rerolls.
Some people did make a conversion for Star Wars Legion though. So you can run 40K vs Star Wars as was once predicted.

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>>98159859
I think v3.4 is decent and remains my system of choice. My playgroup enjoys it greatly as well, and most of them are not even Warhammer refugees. I hadn't even had time to sit down and play v3.5 and I see v3.6 is already on its way which is unfortunate to say at least. Has v3.5 managed to stabilise before its final days?

>>98159878
Why do they churn out editions so fast?

>>98159910
There was quite a gap between 3.4 and 3.5 but for post-3.5 a roadmap was released. It appears that the feedback regarding beta was overwhelmingly negative so now they are changing approach but mess still has to be cleaned up.

>>98159878
>>98159910

I believe it's because modern wargamers have been conditioned to favour endless churn and updates.

They walked back a lot of the dumbest things in 3.5 update. Seems like they'll make more changes in 3.6, like getting rid of defensive abilities that require measurement.
For example, if previously you'd get a defensive bonus of -1 to hit if you were shot at from more than 9 inches away, now you'll get that bonus if you did not move during your activation. There was also an idea that there would be a class of weapons that could be fired in melee instead of regular attacks. I think that was in response to balancing hybrid units (currently either pure melee or pure shooting units are more points-efficient in OPR). However, the 3.6 is in very early beta testing until release in September, so a lot can change during this time.

>>98159591
>you just bought dead stock
that's a real shame. the models are nice... maybe I can find another use for them.

Anyone familiar with Fallout Factions/Wasteland Warfare? Thinking of starting a Mothman cult jsut for shits n' gigs

Maelstrom's edge responded finally. Consignee is responsible for VAT charges for shipments outside of the yookay.

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>>98159983
Warmachine is doing good, much better than it was doing as a Privateer Press's hostage for the last 10 years. It's not huge of course but the events attendance numbers are growing larger and larger and SFG is very transparent about what, when and why is being released. My only complain is that there are three release models being run parallelly (STL only armies, 3D printed only armies and random 2-player starter sets hard plastic kits). It makes collecting very hard for people that have preferences regarding a specific kind of minis. On the other hand, if you don't care that half of your army is plastic while the other half is 3D printed by someone else, you can simply download rules or the app and fuck bitches.

>finish assembling more models
>out of primer
Life is suffering. I'm never going to play this game. Not because I can't paint my models but because no one plays it.

>>98160752
It's not that difficult, anon. Just ask around your local community if someone wants to try it out. Tell them you'll supply all the stuff, and if they like it they can get into it on their own.

>>98159783
It helps a lot when OPR made stats for almost every model GW had at the time.
Compared to something like this is not a test or xenos rampant that can recreate Necromunda or 40k units easily. Its the players that have to figure it out on their own instead of some premade rules.

>>98160765
Its not that easy. Specially if your local players are waacfag retards addicted to GW FOMO.
I know because I'm trap with them and is horrible specially when you grew playing random wargames and no one was addicted to the GW FOMO

>>98160837
>calls people waacfag retards
I suspect the issue isn't where you think it is. Try to start with not considering the people you can play with as retards, and I think you'd be surprised to find what people are willing to try out.

>>98160871
But they are waacfags retards. Every other event someone is caught "mixing up rules that benefit them" or measuring from the front of the model and ending the movement with the back of the model.
Cheating is rampant and I'm tired of pretending respect for subhuman waacfags that would cheat their mother out of a meal.

>>98160089
Not sure for this one but usually their games are a token galore.

>>98159725 (OP)
>What are the most successful alternative wargames of the last few years? What made them successful in your opinion?

OPR is a strong choice, but i'd say Frostgrave, and if you want to include it, Stargrave.
They get constant plastic sets, expansions etc.
OPR only this year got its first real physical miniatures, and while they are not horrible, they are just two factions of PVC monopose minis, still far away from the quality of "proper" plastic sets.

>>98161969
Counting wether or not they get dedicated miniatures is rather beside the point as that is completely outside the scope of the design niche for both games, they are meant to be used with any miniatures, and for OPR, GW miniatures more specifically.
Success can be determined either by the amount of people playing, or by the amount of sales depending on wether you want to mark success by cultural or financial perspective.

>>98160765
I tried the two closest game shops, one was only TCGs and board games, the other was nothing but warhammer and dnd. But I'll keep trying.

>>98161969
depends what you mean by successful i guess
OPR makes what, 50k+ a month through patreon alone? Its a massive player. The set being PVC was such disappointment.
I don't think frost/stargrave is at that amount. that being said, Frostgrave is a better game and I'm so happy to see it succeeding.

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>>98160401
I wouldn't say I have a super strong preference, besides not paying GW prices for 3d prints. The STL bundle I bought I looks like these same models, but was 1/6 the price of the pre-printed stuff. I don't know if that's even close to a full army though.

>>98159725 (OP)
I was looking into Oathmark and maybe Im not understanding or something.
It seems that when making an army you can only have 4 of a unit? The only way to have more than 4 of a unit is to take a different race, so then you have orcs in a team with something like elves. That seems dumb, am I not reading it right and you can take 4 more of a unit for every Region or does every army have to have a mix of all races if you want to have more than 4 of any given unit. That just seems antithetical to making a themed faction.

>>98161327
You are correct and the other anon is wrong. There's no point preaching the drones that creep in a club. Advertise for alternative minis on your local Facebook Marketplace and once you have a buyer make friend with someone who is already on your own mindset.

>>98162094
Youre misunderstanding "unit". A "unit" can comprise 1 to 20 models, theyre not 4 individual models, you can take up to 4 units of orc spearmen for example, but each unit could have up to 20 models in it.

>>98162022
Sure, 50k a month from patreon alone (+x from direct sales on MMF and the tribe subscribers there) is not bad at all. The game is popular, and people know about it, generally speaking.
But Frostgrave is pretty much in every store that sells miniatures. OPR has made the first step into that area now, and they certainly (should) have the money to expand into more (and hopefully better) miniatures quickly.
In the digital area, OPR is the winner for sure, but lets face it, this is a boomer hobby, and store presence and books, plastic (and metal) miniatures are still important to many. Thats why i would call Frostgrave more sucessful in the classical sense.

>>98162094
Oathmark's "twist" is that your army is a coalition of factions. You are growing your kingdom and absorbing the smaller ones around you so they can now serve as troops. Might not be the game for you then.

>>98162022
>>98162221
I would say that Frostgrave has more cultural impact per dollar of profit, but it's also apples to oranges to compare it against OPR, one is a novel, the other is a publisher, as it were. One is meant to be a standalone game, the other is a system to replace a competing publishers games 1:1.

>>98162234
Thats the thing, you can, you just cant have more than 4, there is no reason the have more than 80 of a single unit, its just so you dont have something ridiculous like nearly goblin slaves.

>>98162331
Nearly 200 goblin slaves*

>>98162331
Pretty sure if you're the only one retard in your group refusing to stereo your kingdom you're sabotaging yourself by refusing proper access to best troops for XYZ job? Can't fix whatever you are terrible at too.

>>98162416
I mean if youre playing min max in a game like Oathmark you are probably a twat though. If you want nothing but elves and have a theme in mind just make it work.

>>98162046
The pack on the left is enough for 30 pts. games, which is the introductory size of games. Most games are 50-75 pts. for full games. It has a warcaster, a warjack, a character unit, and 2 solos (there's 3 solo models, but one of them is a shapeshifter that turns into the hulking one). The one on the right is a basic unit for the army.

>>98162496
I had nothing but infinite hordes of gobbo slaves in mind but nooooooo can't have that. The dark master says nay nay nay.

>>98163017
Yea it suck but you can still have 80 lol. Just pick the rest as human militia and model them as brokies.

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>>98162094
First-off, it's not 4 units total from the army, it's 4 of any one unit. So you could have four units of swordsmen, four of archers, and four of spearmen. Second, It's a deliberate anti-spamming measure. Putting dozens of 5-model units on the table breaks it very, very badly.
>seems antithetical to making a themed army
No, it really isn't. Four ten-man units of basic infantry use up about 400-1000 of your 2500 points. Races have at least six infantry types each, plus cavalry and often a special unit or two. So it's quite easy to make a single-race army even without pushing all your units to maximum size. In most games you'll only really need 2-3 units of even your most basic troopers
>Orcs on a team with elves
Yep, that's the idea, it's one of the things that makes Oathmark interesting. It allows much more flexible theming once you start thinking about it as mechanics for your troops and not just the faction labels. The six army types (Orc, Elf, Undead, Human, Dwarf, and Goblin) can effectively cover most army concepts depending on how you mix them. So you could make Chaos Dwarves with Goblin/ratmen slaves, or make an elite archery-focused "samurai" army using Elves as the samurai core and Humans as the ashigaru. Or do what I do, have elite beastmen (using Orc and Goblin rules) leading a mass of undead

>>98163017
>I had nothing but infinite hordes of gobbo slaves in mind but nooooooo can't have that.
I mean you're gonna have a bad time. But still. 76 slave slingers and 76 slaves (922pts), plus eight Champions (296pts) gets you up to 1,218 out of 2500. A couple Generals to tard-wrangle them, a King, and a couple Spellcasters to make them actually function in combat, and you're up over 2100. That's a couple wolf packs away from a full army. It also occupies more than 4 feet of your deployment edge just on its own, so you're hitting the limits of physical table space. It might as well be infinite.

>>98163134
>>98162206
Yea I definately got it wrong. This is more than fine for what I wanted to do. Wanted lots of goblin slaves alongside few of the more powerful orcs units.

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Does anyone have those old Dropfleet Commander scenario sheets for the Automated Dreadnought TTCombat did models for?

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>>98163322
Woops, wrong image

Is there a skirmish game (model agnostic is a bonus) that's based on traditional RPG classes? Maybe 5 models per side that lets you use mages, fighters, rogues etc?
I guess it would basically be a simplified version of DND/Pathfinder combat and without the roleplaying.

>>98163333
Frostgrave.

>>98163339
I looked into frostgrave, but it seemed to focus on the wizard a bit too much, with the rest of the party being mooks.

>>98163340
It isn't immediately apparent but the combat is very swingy, everyone has the potential to take out an opponent in a single strike, and while the mphasis is on the wizard this is an honest reflection of the RPG experience where everyone in the party becomes an entourage to the spellcaster who has a library of tools to handle every situation, at least in frostgrave your wizards spells are equal in damage terms to your fighters sword or your rangers bow.
You can de-emphasize the wizard as well by not using the apprentice.

>>98163340
>>98163356
Oh and if you use the Captain rules in sellsword for every party member the experience gain will keep everyone equal, that or just play all matches with a lv.1 wizard and don't implement the experience gain component.

>>98163333
I'm working on one right now. Though it's 3 models a side.
The classes are: fighter, barbarian, ranger, magic user, cleric, thief, noble, monk, alchemist, dwarf and elf.

>>98163339
Terrible recommendation. You should feel bad.

>>98163322
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0965/1274/files/Automated_Dreadnought.pdf?444

Also the Ether Drake for good measure:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0965/1274/files/Ether_Drake.pdf?439

>>98163618
Thanks a ton!

>>98163333
if you're willing to play a dead game, you can find the old DnD mini skirmish game.
came with the minis with cards repping the characters. monsters and pcs

>>98163333
Rangers of Shadowdeep and Five Leagues from the Borderlands.

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Has anyone done kitbashes of the UCM cutters? I was never really a fan of how wide they were, especially since they were supposedly "near-frigate tonnage" yet if you're extremely generous they're basically twice the volume of any of the normal frigates. I was thinking of cutting it like the pic here, maybe somehow putting in the oversized engine from the center bit.

>>98163731
My group had some good times with RoSD, needed a few house rules to keep everyone happy, but Mr. McCullough does pretty good game design.

>>98163333
Honestly your best bet is the old D&D Miniatures battle game. It was a stripped-down D&D 3.5 engine and all the units had stat cards and point values. Was quite popular when it was being published.

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>>98162022
doing some rough math, they're probably making 100k on patreon, then with frequent sales probably another 25k on mmf, so that's 1.5M a year just in digital. then they made 650k on their ks, with pledge manager and retail that probably goes up to 900k, then add maybe another yearly 100k from other sources (etsy, dtrg, etc.) and in total you're looking at 2.5M annual revenue

at this point, they're way past indie status (in the wargaming industry) and bigger than mantic and the likes. wouldn't be surprised if they get well into the 5M range within the next few years with more physical presence

OPR is definitely the most successful awg out there, miles ahead of frostgrave

Speaking about the popularity of FG in particular: I think this mostly limited, like so many things, to the UK.
Here, in 3rd world Germanistan, i cant even buy a single individual sprue for any of the FG sets on ebay. If i search for Frostgrave sprue and filter for sellers within germany (because fuck paying 10€+ for shipping a single sprue from the UK), there is zero results. Same for stargrave.
For oathmark, there is one guy who sells a box of human infantry sprues, where he took out the bodies for some other project.

How successful can a game be, if there is literally zero secondary market for it? Sure, i can buy any box in a number of german online stores, for decent prices even - but how many boxes are actually sold, if apparently nobody is selling leftover sprues?

and yes, there are some other plattforms to sell used stuff too, but none is as big as ebay, so while i might be able to find 1-2 listings somewhere, the trend is pretty clear: its not really succesful "here".