/tg/ — Why did steampunk not catch on like cyberpunk, post-apocalyp

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I played the Zeitgeist adventure series for D&D 4e from level 1 to 30. It was very entertaining.

My DM and I wrote for the official sequel setting book. My DM also wrote a guide on how to better run the adventure series.

Granted, Zeitgeist is not so much raw steampunk as it is a blend of steampunk and magic: think Eberron if the sliding scale were just a bit more towards the "steampunk" side than the "magic" side.

We had this thread last week. Use the archive.

>>98163427 (OP)
Because it’s retarded and gay

>>98163427 (OP)
Because modern people don't engage with the actual themes of a victorian industrial setting, so it's just an aesthetic that gets way over-exaggerated to fill the void left by theme.

>>98163427 (OP)
EVERY WEEK WITH THIS

>>98163427 (OP)
I have this question but for dieselpunk

>>98163427 (OP)
The same people who were in to it the most because of the hecking elegant cogineer top hat scientists and overdressed Victorian ladies aesthetic are the exact same demographic that feels the most guilt about fetishishising the upper crust of a society based on colonial wealth and oppression. So they quietly all put it down.

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>>98163544

This seems to be the actual answer. Weeby media does not particularly care, on the other hand, and still frequently rolls out steampunk-adjacent (often more magical than raw steampunk) settings and character designs.

>>98163427 (OP)
The aesthetic is ruined by the kind of renfaire reject who can't do actual medieval clothing and only does quirked up low budget fantasy costumes. They don't understand why certain pieces of equipment are or are not part of a period accurate costume so they flock to steampunk where they can air their fugly creativity in all its meaningless glory. "LOOK AT MY POCKET WATCH GLUED TO THE BRIM OF MY STOVEPIPE HAT, ISN'T THAT COOL?!"

It's in theory a neat look with creative potential in different mediums, it's in practice an ugly costuming niche populated by people who would have been applied to be a Channel Awesome content creator back in the day. Certainly not enough to support board games based on the aesthetic.

>>98163427 (OP)
Why does op keep reposting the same fucking thread over and over and over again?

>>98163534
Diesel punk has enough interest to constantly warrant homages in just about everything, but not enough to build its own setting.
Not to mention irl is basically diesel punk.

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>>98163427 (OP)

>>98163534
Dieselpunk is chud coded.

>>98163437
I'm actually prepping the first session of a Zeitgeist campaign (though in an adapted more historical setting), and Zeitvice has been helping a lot.

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>>98163861

Very interesting. I hope that Zeitvice helps you. I contributed to some of Zeitvice, but even so, the main writer (i.e. my GM at the time) has yet to complete the document.

>>98163427 (OP)
maybe because there is no real seminal work like there is of those others. I guess jules vern Kind of is, but it was more speculative sci-fi for the time and it never got a big epic movie series, video game, or RPG system like Star Wars, Conan, Lord of The Rings, Mad Max, or cyberpunk did so there was no real Nexus of Centralized Hype (NoCH).

No centralizing series that could ignite a shared identity.

>>98164013
I do think the The Difference Engine is a decent read, but yeah it never really caught on the way that cyberpunk did. Paul DiFilipo or however you spell it's Steampunk Trilogy is interesting too (I'll be honest it has been a long while and I can't remember the prose really), but also isn't particularly well known and also runs in to the already mentioned issue of the real world politics of their steampowered fantasy being uncomfortable for some of the people who otherwise might have enjoyed the genre most with the extreme racial elements.
And the genetically engineered reptilian queen Victoria clone is maybe not what people have in mind for the genre either.

The thing is that any steampunk adventure set in the real world is taking place simultaneously with like the enslavement of native amazonians on rubber plantations and all it takes is asking how the incredible tech of the steam punk setting might actually be getting used off-stage to drastically change the tone. Like "I wonder what Belgians in the Congo are using this technology for right now?" sure kills the upbeat steampunk mood.

For some reason people wanted steaming to be utopian, and I'm not sure it actually works that way unless as the other anon days you anime-fy it and do it in a secondary world where it can be detached from the real world stuff. You can have a cool game or piece of fiction that interacts with that real history baggage regardless of your personal politics and whatever else, but I do think that at least half of any group of people who are interested in steampunk will bail the moment you try.

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I vastly prefer steampunk over Reddit shit like renaissance faggotry personally.

>>98164081
I really dont think tone is an essential part of why steampunk was make'd or brake'd. For sci fi you have high adventure star wars, utopian esposing Star trek and Grimdark 40k. Three very different feels and general themes.
>I do think the The Difference Engine is a decent read
>Paul DiFilipo or however you spell it's Steampunk Trilogy
I dont go out of my way to look at much steam punk stuff, not my first genre of choice, but as a outsider, I have no idea what these things are. For Sci-fi, post-apocolypse, or fantasy, there are a number of properties your average mildly pop culture aware person would know, but I cant really think of a "big name" for steam punk.

As a side note, I have for a long time really liked the idea of steam punk but taking on the more early 1800s feel rather than late 1800s. I am a big fan of a lot of the experimental firearms before the adoption of the metal cartridge and magazine/clip method. Especially various breach loading firearms like the M1819 Hall Rifle. I like the idea that the standard combat method is still single fire, but with relatively quick loading mechanisms.

>>98164099
steampunk is REDDIT SHIT that's why people HATED IT and it's a FAILED SUBGENRE and ONLY AN AESTHETIC

>>98164149
>its reddit
nope.

>>98163427 (OP)
My guess is that it fails because the "Steampunks" using the cool tech tend to be the antagonists rather than the protagonists.

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea? Captain Nemo is the Steampunk that built the Nautilus to overthrow the UK.

Robur the Conquer/Master of the World? Robur is the Steampunk who builds airships and "the Terror" (hybrid speedboat/submarine/automative/aircraft super vehicle) to lord it over everyone else.

>>98164081
>For some reason people wanted steaming to be utopian,

Which is weird since most "-punk" settings require the world to be dystopic/a failed utopia.

>>98164127
>but I cant really think of a "big name" for steam punk.
The big names tend to be 20k Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and the lesser known Master of the World (1961). The Steampunk "look" is based on those two movies and the things that tried to copy them.

I think the thing with Steampunk is that it's bogged down with the fact that it can only be a fashion/aesthetic now, and other settings have the advantage that they can dive into concepts/themes that give it depth.
>Cyberpunk can focus on themes of what separates man from machine, when Capitalism gets out of hand and starts controlling world governments into corporate feudalism, and artificial intelligence.
>Post-Apocalypse settings can focus on the evil nature of men even when the world needs to work together to survive, and the consequences of war when taken too far.
>Space Operas can center on understanding our place in the universe, asking questions on what makes us human, and "diversity"/aliens coming together for the greater good.
What the fuck can you do with Steampunk? Touch on Imperialism? And if you want to attack Capitalism, Cyberpunk already does a good job at that.

>>98163438
We have this thread every week.

>>98164081
>>98164127
going off of the tone thing, there very much was utopian strains during the 1800s too. cracking down on slavery, no major europe wide war till wwi, Experimental social projects, invention of medicines and human helping processes, developments of infastructure and establishment of some personal liberties, and pushes for moral welbeing, etc. You could go up beat if you want, down beat, sideways beat, or most beats you can decide on.

Big reason why WWI was so traumatic was because it came off as a shock compared to a lot of the relative optimism that permiated many parts of the previous period.

>>98164167
> 20k Leagues Under the Sea (1954)
never even knew that movie existed, which kind of goes to my thesis.

>>98164181
Kind of interesting that Disney's famous adaption of the story has fallen out of memory in the past 25 years.

>>98164167
>The big names tend to be 20k Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and the lesser known Master of the World (1961)
Genres begin with books, not movies. And works of Jules Verne don't work as a steampunk, because they're straight up science fiction from perspective of his era, while steampunk is retrofuturistic. Cyberpunk has Neuromancer and Snow Crash, steampunk got nothing really. Maybe Mortal Engines.

>>98164214
>Genres begin with books, not movies
most retarded statement.

>>98164214
>Genres begin with books, not movies.
Both of those films were based on popular books, and Cyberpunk esthetics were more determined by films like Bladerunner and Robocop than they were by the book Neuromancer. Steampunk esthetics were based on those movies.

>because they're straight up science fiction from perspective of his era
And Cyberpunk is Sci-Fi from the cynical perspective of the 70s, 80s and 90s.

Steampunk as a retrofuturistic genre is an attempt to imitate the spirit of the scifi works published around the time of Jules Verne and H.G.Wells. This is similar to how fantasy as a genre was an attempt to imitate the spirit of the chivalric romance associated with the mythologies of King Arthur, Charlemagne and others.

Leaving out the genre inspirations leaves out major part of a genre.

>>98163534
Dieselpunk itself is less popular as an aesthetic, but arguably more functional as a setting, since it's pretty easy to just do alt-history roaring 20s or WW2. Those are already pretty popular time periods to set a game in, so dieselpunk basically excuses why there's more sci-fi/modern tech available.

>>98164164
fuck maybe you're right.. I kneel...

>>98164379
Tabletop RPG's usually take motifs and themes that mimic popular genres such as high fantasy, cyberpunk, sci-fi, but to OP's dismay, not enough steampunk.

>>98163427 (OP)
Too historical for the fantasy audience, too fantastical for the historical audience.

>>98164379
Getting hit by a car and no longer plaguing communities with your presence?

>>98163427 (OP)
Blew up in the Reddit-sphere. No one wants to touch it since.

>>98163427 (OP)
Because instead of asking questions about how life would be in a different kind of society, steampunk asks "what if everything had exposed gears?". It's not even about steam engines anymore, just about putting gears on hats.

>>98164582
>steampunk asks "what if everything had exposed gears?"
Victorian-era industrialisation already answered that - slight increase in child worker mortality and mangling of the adults. In and of itself no big deal as long as fertility rate stays high and nobody unionizes to make fuss about work conditions.

>>98163438
>>98163497
traffic is slow, the mods need tendies. please understand

>>98164175
Make a general then.

>>98164881
Raise their wages by 20%.

>>98163427 (OP)
Oversaturation from insufferable hipsters.

>>98163534
That's WW2, one of the most popular backdrops ever.

>>98164949
I do feel like dieselpunk was cooler and had more staying power than steampunk, but then I think about it and realize it just might be my own personal bias and because I can imagine sci-fi ww2 way easier

>>98163880
Is zeitgeist as pedo-coded as you or is that just an extra layer you add to make it unpopular? Because honestly you shilling it with lolis for years has always prevented me from checking it out despite my love of 4e

>>98163427 (OP)
Three reasons.
First off. It's tends to be very "old-style British." Often that "Victorian" themes which most people are too familiar with.
Second, steampunk has a big issue with artists who don't know anything outside of "Victorian fashion" with gears and mechanical parts here and there. So it's just a cosplayer gimmick over something like cyberpunk which has themes people know and use outside of what their outfit is. In fact you have different styles of cyberpunk fashion compare to steampunk which is just gears and old-timely clothes.
The last one is simply, most styles and "punks" come because a big IP brings people into that style. Cyberpunk has had Ghost in the Shell, Cyberpunk, Matrix, Bladerunner, etc.
As for Steampunk. You have Wild Wild West which was more western with steampunk added in. Then mostly just anime and some cartoons like Last Exile, Steamboy, etc.

>>98164214
>they're straight up science fiction from perspective of his era, while steampunk is retrofuturistic
That's exactly what happened to cyberpunk and it's popular.

>>98163427 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>98163492
>>98163544
>>98163617
a mix of these three, I think

>>98163427 (OP)
Because it's just a sub-fashion of goth, for even fatter people. It was never anything else. The notion of a "genre" of steampunk was all retroactively claiming that things that already happened were steampunk. No one was ever creating within a community because the community wasn't its own thing--it was just a subset of the goth community. So it only existed as a backwards-facing projection. When people finally started to trying to create to it, around 2010, the moment had already passed and everyone was tired of it.

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Frostpunk was somewhat successful, and the setting has lots of steampunk tech. I feel like this type of "survival steampunk" could be the niche to make steampunk catch on, the old world is already dead, and you are just trying to keep what is left of humanity alive.

I think the Revelation space series also has people using steampunk technology because all the advanced nanotech got destroyed by a nano-plague.

Those type of settings could allow people to enjoy steampunk without the baggage of the brutal parts of industrial revolution.

>>98166400
>I think the Revelation space series also has people using steampunk technology because all the advanced nanotech got destroyed by a nano-plague.
It really doesn't. He has lots of anachronisms in it. But if you're seeing "steampunk" in them specifically, you're grasping at straws and seeing what you wanna see.

>>98164167
Is it somethingpunk if it (more or less) just use the aesthetics of the scifi back then?
I mean... if we made a movie with some Fobridden Planet vibes, it would be a retro '50s movie. It wouldn't be like cyberpunk, which was about people thinking about the futurer back in the 80s.

I suppose it there WAS an actual steampunk milieu it would be something made after the victorian era with something quite different from the late 1800s fiction. If not, it would be just retro.

>>98163427 (OP)
it's literally one of the most popular set pieces of all time you people are just retarded
>literally the entire final fantasy series is all steampunk shit and magicka what nots
>anime: especially shit like nausicaa and howl's moving castle
>dishnoured series
etc.

>>98167551

>Nausicaa

>every FF

>steampunk

What the actual fuck

>>98163427 (OP)
It's too pulp for historical nerds.
It's too close to modern times/society for fantasy nerds.
It's too problematic for fake nerds.
It's too primitive for urban fantasy or sci-fi nerds.

>>98168296
Yeah, steampunk never existed. Was all just retrojecting onto other media and abstracting a fashion from there. There was never a steampunk community outside the fashion movement. By the time anyone wanted to build steampunk creatively in the mid aughts, the people who'd driven its popularity had already moved on. So it was dead on arrival, because the folks interested in it now aren't creative. They're welcome to be, but they're not.

>>98166225
>>98164432

>>98168296
what is steampunk to you dumb fuck, final fantasy 6 is literally steampunk aesthetic and has 'magic' technology, nausicaa has all the themes

>>98168587
warmachine became the 2nd biggest miniature wargame off a steampunk aesthetic too

>>98168976
>what is steampunk to you dumb fuck, final fantasy 6 is literally steampunk aesthetic and has 'magic' technology, nausicaa has all the themes
Exactly the point. No they aren't. "Steampunk" didn't conceptually exist when either FF6 or Nausicaa came out. You're just retrojecting the idea onto it. They have nothing at all to do with "steampunk." That's absolute nonsense.
>b-b-but the word was used in the 1980s!
Not to refer to the thing that you mean. Not until the late 90s and early aughts. Calling those things "steampunk" is an anachronism. It's trying to give the idea more credence than it deserves. FF6 isn't steampunk. Jules Verne isn't Steampunk. Your fandom doesn't get to magically go back in time and claim that anything you like was a member of it.