/vr/ — was he right?

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>too much escapism isn't healthy!
>BTW have some more never ending infinitely repeating sidequests I hope you enjoy them ;)

>>12629852 (OP)
It's funny he says that while wanting to escape from Ivalice.

I want to rip out that ahoge

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>FUCK YOU MEWT GO HOME THIS WORLD IS EVIL
>Me? I'm saying here, me and Ritz still need to get 100% completion on this baby
What a fucking asshole.

>what do you mean you DONT want to leave the epic fantasy world where you're not crippled and lead a guild of warriors and there's hot bunny cunny everywhere so you can go back to school and get bullied and then be a wageslave the rest of your life?! that's not healthy!!

>23 years
>one meme

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>>12629852 (OP)

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>>12629852 (OP)
absolutely

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>>12629901
2 memes

>>12629852 (OP)
get back in the FUCKING wheelchair

>>12629925
Montblanc was my nigga
The realest of reals

>>12629852 (OP)
I fucking hate the cripple too

>>12629852 (OP)
Its all about moderation. Although OP is a manchild so he probably doesn't know anything about that.

>>12629852 (OP)
If it wasn't for Marche, Mewt would be shitposting on 4chan before long

>>12630210
>moderation

Sorry, we don't really have that on /vr/

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>>12629891
Now that is one hot piece of bunny ass!

>>12629852 (OP)
This statement is correct but ultimately the story is about might making right

>>12629883
do you know what escapism means?

>>12629852 (OP)
About Mewt? Yes. Mewt was clearly not doing well in Ivalice. But the game never made a good case against staying in Ivalice in general, and it obviously made a good case in favor of staying, by making Ivalice fun and wheelchair-free. The writing in this game is charming and fun but the high-level plot sucks. The real solution seemed to be this: Pop out of the book temporarily, get hold of a family therapist for both Mewt and his dad, bring that person into the book to straighten out those two WITHOUT requiring them to leave, and then have fun in Ivalice for a long time.

>>12631316
>The real solution seemed to be this: Pop out of the book temporarily, get hold of a family therapist for both Mewt and his dad, bring that person into the book to straighten out those two WITHOUT requiring them to leave, and then have fun in Ivalice for a long time.
A good idea on paper, but the reality is Marche and his friends are just a bunch of dumb kids who don't know any better. Marche is even questioned if there was another way to solve the problem without destroying the world in the process and he had no answer because he's a dumb kid.
None of it mattered anyway because Remedi using the world's existence to make herself stronger made him retroactively correct because god forbid we have gray morality in video game stories.

>>12630603
He absolutely wants to escape from his new reality.
Also just like Zhuangzi he has no way of knowing whether the town he lived in or Ivalice is any more 'real' (we as a player know that both a fictional anyway).

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The plot of FFTA is indefensible, no matter how much you try. None of the kids fit in, so they go to another world to learn about teamwork and friendship. BUT, sociopath Marche doesn't even acknowledge his new friends as real and openly talks about destroying their world in front of them. So what's the moral? Why shouldn't Marche just fucking take everyone to the Jagd for kicks?

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>>12631331
>Also just like Zhuangzi he has no way of knowing whether the town he lived in or Ivalice is any more 'real'

That is a completely different conversation, anon. There's a difference between the ambiguity of reality, and actual escapism.

Marche is smart enough to realize the place where everyone's problems are magically fixed is not real. Wanting to escape a FALSE reality is not escapism, it is literally the opposite.

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>>12632606
>Marche is smart enough to realize the place where everyone's problems are magically fixed is not real.

Why? Based on what? For all anyone is concerned Ivalice is the new reality. You have living sentiment beings in there. Why is Marche real and Monteblanc isn't? You can't just say something is fake and make it so. it sucks the old reality was over written but it was over written.

>>12632652
>Why? Based on what?For all anyone is concerned Ivalice is the new reality.
What the hell are you talking about? It's a facade being held up by the crystals. How is a plot written for children going over your head?

>You have living sentiment beings in there. Why is Marche real and Monteblanc isn't?
Because they are not living sentient beings. Montblanc and Ivalice are from a fantasy dream world.

>You can't just say something is fake and make it so.
You can't just make up head canon and claim it's a valid interpretation when the plot spells out otherwise.

>>12632652
This.
If I was allowed to re-roll my life and it was better than my existing one, why shouldn't I want to stay in Ivalice?

>friend is a fag
>suddenly wake up in this fag's incredibly gay fantasy
>force him back into reality
>make it his final fantasy so he is forced to continue being a fag in a world where he is rightfully stoned for being gay
Marche did nothing wrong.

>>12633338
You'd be living a life that isn't yours, anon. You wouldn't have grown from your mistakes, you would have repeat them and learn nothing to just slowly end up back where you were. It would be a hollow inauthentic existence. Why live at all?

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>>12633424
He's not really living in his current life. He can't. He can learn more in invalice than he could in is old world. The new life is still his. To quote REH's Conan of Cimmeria in Queen of the Black Coast.
> I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.”
And Conan is way cooler than any of these retards.

>>12633474
This is just self delusion, this really isn't proving anything. Marche and his friends lives are not an illusion, they are real, to believe otherwise is delusion and sinking into escapism. It is the rest of Ivalice that is the illusion, the escape from reality.

If you can't see the issues that reside in escapism, and fall prey to the romanticism of it, then this is something I think you'll just have to figure out for yourself.

>>12633532
>they are real
It's a video game. They aren't real.

>>12633538
No shit they're not actually real, they are from the "real" reality within the game.

bait post but I think the other anon is dumb enough to agree so here's your (You)

The real world equivalent of Marche would be a person who tries to exterminate humanity because he Berenstein Bears as Bernstein Bears.

You should always assume that the one reality you live in is the real one and not the one you remember in your memories.

>>12629852 (OP)
He was right that his brother wanted to escape not being able to use his legs, and his asshole brother who forced him to go back to being a cripple.

>>12633424
What's the difference between starting a new life in a new country and starting a new life in Ivalice? Why does choosing a better life necessitate that you haven't faced the problems in, or learned from, your old one?
What if your biggest problem isn't yourself, but bad circumstances you find yourself in? Why shouldn't you choose better circumstances?

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>>12629852 (OP)
He didn't actually say that.

>>12633607
It's not that different, but still, ugh.

>>12633609
Eh, it's pretty different. In Japanese, Babus recognizes that it's delusion, but won't let go of the fantasy, whereas in English, Marche is still trying to convince him that it is one to begin with.

Wait, so does his original reality still exist? I put a few dozen hours into it but never finished it, and from what I recall the game implied that Ivalice basically replaced his reality and took it's place, transforming all the places and just about all the people except the main ones into something else fitting that reality.

Marche's motivations made perfect sense to me if that was the case, there was no world for him to go back to as long as Ivalice still exists. All his friends, family, home, everything he's ever known was gone and turned into a fantasy world so Mewt can literally live like a king. As well as the whole "escapism" thing considering that means Mewt basically destroyed the world and used it's remains to craft a fantasy world he can escape to and pretend he is the ruler of.

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Obligatory

Alot of people really don't seem to understand the story of FFTA. The tl;dr is that videogames are fun, but you can't just avoid the real world there forever.

>>12633569
Does moving to a different country turn the people from your old country into monsters who have to suffer for their whole existence?

>>12633797
>The tl;dr is that videogames are fun, but you can't just avoid the real world there forever.
Ive been doing it for 34 years

>>12633607
we're already at the point of AI where trannylators have no reason to exist

>>12633797
>suffer
Do you have any evidence to support they aren't happier as monsters than they would be as wageslaves in their previous world?

Marche is the prime example of an Evil character. He puts his personal desire to return to the previous world above the lives of all other inhabitants of Ivalice and that when not even knowning for sure that he or anyone else can return to the previous world after he destroys Ivalice.

>>12633797
>Alot of people really don't seem to understand the story of FFTA
There's nothing to understand, it's badly written and Marthe comes off like a sanctimonious hypocrite. Which frankly would even be fine if the game acknowledged as much.

>Does moving to a different country turn the people from your old country into monsters who have to suffer for their whole existence?
it sucks that those people got changed but it doesn't make it less the new reality. people suffer in the "real" world.

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>>12633569
Changing your environment to better your situation is much different than escapism and you seem to be conflating the two. Again, I don't think you actually know what escapism means.

If I lived in a poor area or dangerous area, Chicago or something, moving to a safer city or another country to better my situation would not be me giving up on solving the problems I haven't solved on my own, but a better opportunity to do so. This is not escapism.

It's much different than teleporting to a magic land where your legs work again.

Starting to think you unironically need some help, anon.

>>12634514
>There's nothing to understand, it's badly written and Marthe comes off like a sanctimonious hypocrite. Which frankly would even be fine if the game acknowledged as much.
Marches motives were selfish and childish, but with plot reveals he was revealed to be objectively right.
>it sucks that those people got changed but it doesn't make it less the new reality. people suffer in the "real" world.
Ever heard of "two wrongs don't make a right?"

>>12633854
I bet those kids were thrilled to be turned into low level zombies.

>>12634623
>Marches motives were selfish and childish, but with plot reveals he was revealed to be objectively right.
Yes, but that was more like he just whined his way into the correct answer.
>Ever heard of "two wrongs don't make a right?"
That saying actually works against Marche. the first wrong is the change to Ivalce. A second wrong would be changing it back.
>I bet those kids were thrilled to be turned into low level zombies.
As much as Mewt is thrilled to be crippled and all the fantastical civilians of Ivalce were to be wiped out of existence. Second wrong.

>>12633797
>The tl;dr is that videogames are fun, but you can't just avoid the real world there forever.
I think it's less that and more that it's irresponsible for developers to promote escapism. Isekai stories, the old ones, usually had the ultimate objective of returning back home.

Funny how modern isekai figured out a loophole to that by killing the MC with a truck and making them reincarnate in the new world.

>>12633797
>Does moving to a different country turn the people from your old country into monsters who have to suffer for their whole existence?
That's a separate issue that has got very little to do with whether it's escapism or not. It is literally erasing your old problems, true, but that's a side effect, not the main attraction. For me choosing to stay in Ivalice, from an "escapism or not escapism" perspective, is functionally no different from choosing to leave your old life behind and live in another country.
I see the "Ivalice it's unhealthy escapism" argument as essentially saying that you shouldn't seek to change your external circumstances, you just have to be miserable and "cope" with your problems. Don't get an operation to fix your legs. Don't start going out and socializing at that bar, you have to stay home and be lonely to build character or whatever.
You shouldn't run from your demons, sure, but changing the external circumstances that are getting you down isn't unhealthy.
Ivalice might be replacing reality, but it's shown to be real in every way that matters.

>>12634602
>Changing your environment to better your situation is much different than escapism and you seem to be conflating the two.
No, you are. I am saying that changing your environment is not escapism, and Ivalice is an environment change.
>It's much different than teleporting to a magic land where your legs work again.
So it's the teleporting that makes it escapism, instead of going by plane? Or the fact that magic exists? Magic already existed or Ivalice wouldn't have happened in the first place.
It's not like living on the holodeck or something. It is functionally a completely real place, even if its reality was achieved at the expense of overwriting the previous one.

this discussion is missing the whole "dragging the rest of the world into your problems" thing that happened in the story. Sure you can do that but it will be rightfully met with people who refuse to go along and will ultimately be decided by who hits better. Then there's the whole soul draining thing

>>12634893
It's missing that because Marche never made that argument. It would have been a good argument, but he didn't give a shit about that. To my memory, he didn't even make the argument that he would prefer to go home and they were stopping him from doing so. He only cared about dictating to his friends what they should and shouldn't do, and when they didn't agree he set about forcing them to comply.

>>12634890
>I am saying that changing your environment is not escapism, and Ivalice is an environment change.
>Ivalice is an environment change.

There's really no more conversation to be had with your fundamental (willful) misunderstanding of escapism and reality. Good luck, anon.

>>12634932
I'd like to believe you're being sincere, but it sounds very much like you're trying to abandon the discussion because you can't argue the point.
It's literally an environmental change. For Doned, it's the equivalent of medical intervention. Are cures and surgery escapism?
I would agree that it's escapism for Mewt. Not for the other kids.

>>12634953
NTA but no, this is not just an "environment change", that would be moving to a new location. All of that person's history and his reality still exists. His family would still exist, his history would still exist, the world and all it's pros and cons would still exist, any debts or unfinished business would still exist, the very laws of physics would still exist.

When you move to a different state, reality itself does not change so you magically have working legs again, become ruler of the world, people of different species come into existence, and the laws of physics change and magic becomes real. That's literally living in a world of make-believe.

Also, when you move you don't nuke your old hometown either, Mewt transformed the world into his make-believe fantasy playset, he didn't just leave it, he erased the existence of his family, history, everything. That's not just an "environment change".

>>12634992
>All of that person's history and his reality still exists. His family would still exist, his history would still exist, the world and all it's pros and cons would still exist, any debts or unfinished business would still exist, the very laws of physics would still exist.
Moving to a new country can accomplish the same thing in practice, sans the laws of physics. You retain your own memories and personal history, but what you left behind is so distant as to be irrelevant. If you incurred debts or did something particularly bad it would likely follow you, but otherwise you can easily leave all of it in the past.
>so you magically have working legs again
It's the equivalent of being cured by medicine.
>magic becomes real
It had to have already been real or the transformation wouldn't have happened in the first place.
>That's literally living in a world of make-believe.
But it's real. It's not fake. Call it a catastrophe that befell the world if you like, but it's not an illusion. It happened.
>Also, when you move you don't nuke your old hometown either
That wasn't intentional so it's not relevant to the argument of escapism. The decision at hand is choosing to STAY in Ivalice, to embrace the change after it has occurred. It could easily be argued that wanting to return to St. Ivalice is an attempt to escape the new reality and go backwards to how things used to be. To escape the reality of change.

>WAAAAAAAAH MY LIFE SUCKS MY DAD IS A DRUNK AND EVERYONE PICKS ON MEEEEE
>HEY I'M KING SHIT OF THIS FANTASY WORLD NOW!
>MY FIRST ORDER AS KING IS TO TURN THE BULLIES WHO THREW ROCKS AT ME INTO MINDLESS ZOMBIES
>also no one can die here LOL NEVER MIND HAVE SOME JAGDS WHERE YOU CAN DIE FOREVER
>ALSO MORE COMBAT RULES THAT CONTRADICT EACH OTHER SO I CAN JAIL MORE PEOPLE
Mewt was a fucking nigger.