/vrpg/ — Stat rolling

>>3999365 (OP)
I hex edit the stats I roll with real life dice

And yet this thread is still going to be here sixteen months later at 500 posts after you bump it every week

>>3999365 (OP)
The Gold Box series allowed you to roll but then edit your stats. However if you gave yourself all 18s or something it "punished" you by increasing the number of enemies during encounters.

>>3999365 (OP)
>correctly identifies stat rolling as a problem
>still uses DnD horrendous stat system
NGMI

Rolling is for roleplaying in a tabletop game with a human DM. Back in the day you rolled stats in order strictly, and it determined what class you were even allowed to play.
Point buy is for min maxing video game cheese. You pick what you want to play first, and then optimize the stats after.

>>3999372
Kinda. it's more that enemy encounters scale to your party level and STR and CON and DEX affect those with HP and AC and THAC0. 18 in WIS or INT or CHA does nothing to boost enemies.

As to the topic, point buy leads to min maxing though, which is itself degenerate. The reality is that giving the player agency is the best thing to do in an RPG, because you cannot fix the mind of an autist with systems.

I want a game where your character is entirely defined by how you play, no meta stuff like leveling up and assigning points.

But the problem with most increase-by-use stat/skill systems is that your character will eventually become good at everything, including mutually contradictory stats. Would be easy to improve but nobody's trying.

Add more fortnight moves in the future game skill stats. All the characters are awesome !’

>>3999384
>I want a game where your character is entirely defined by how you play, no meta stuff like leveling up and assigning points.
Make gold XP. Buy training. Only level up what you want to pay for.

Stat rolling is just an artifact of OSR-dweebs and 5e newfags who don't play anything with actual rules in it

>>3999375
that particular aspect of AD&D was ass and forced unlucky players to play assassins, the only class every race had unlimited levels in
5th edition point buy based on BG3 is also ass because there's no reason for every character to not have a 17/16/15 spread with one feat on ASI
I like NWN2's 3.5 point buy because there's more flexibility - you can start with 18 in your class's main stat, but there's a cost, or you can be more balanced, etc. Stat increases are also done automatically every 4 levels, instead of forcing you to waste a feat slot on the most boring and flavorless feat ever just to have usable stats.

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>>3999384
Skill decay.
Beyond a certain level, skills lose exp and levels, at a faster rate the higher the level. So if you're a jack-of-all-trades, every moment you're using a melee skill, your ranged and magic skills are decreasing. You would be able to maintain a decent level in all of them, but never achieve mastery.

>>3999372
>However if you gave yourself all 18s or something it "punished" you by increasing the number of enemies during encounters
"I didn't ask how many kobolds there are I said I CAST FIREBALL"

>>3999387
I did this in a Skyrim run with unlimited training, richer merchants, and a lot of treasure mods, still my favorite run.

>>3999365 (OP)
I disagree, I like the variation it brings. I also only hit it once and accept my fate instead of re-rolling for hours like some braindead rat.

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>>3999365 (OP)
That UI was soulful and gave me a possitive impression even though I knew nothing about d&d back then.

>>3999419
>That UI was soulful
That's not the original UI, that's the cringe demake UI.

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>>3999370

>>3999365 (OP)
BG2 does have pointbuy. You don't see those + and - buttons right there? You can move those points around.

>>3999423
God, the mindlessly negative misinformation bullshit is so fucking insufferable. Shut the fuck up, stop lying, stop just being a reactionary, stop just oversharing your hateful misery. No one fucking cares about you and it's specifically because of that shit. Shut the fuck up.

>>3999528
>stop just oversharing your hateful misery
Indeed, little boy.
Stop crying.

>>3999401
How would you explain or justify it?

>>3999384
Morrowind and oblivion

>>3999649
It's just a simulation of training and expertise.
It's like if top athletes have a month off for whatever reason. They fall behind their peers.

>>3999682
Should only be physical skills then, and not all of them, cause some things are like riding a bike. Though I guess you could also have a "memory" stat that influences non-combat skill loss.

>>3999686
>only physical skills
You'll forget maths if you don't use it every day.

>>3999707
>You'll forget maths if you don't use it every day.
Can confirm.
>t. engineer

>>3999365 (OP)
But how else you get above average stats to feel better than imaginary noobs.

>>3999707
Math is a physical skill then.
You won't forget how to swim though, so it's a mental skill.

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>>3999528
>the mindlessly negative misinformation bullshit is so fucking insufferable
>stop lying
Oh no no no, you did play the games, right? You do know what the games looked like, right? You wouldn't happen to be lying and spreading MISINFORMATION, would you, anon?
>stop just oversharing your hateful misery. No one fucking cares about you and it's specifically because of that shit
I have seen you do this in more than one thread, just total non-sequiturs of seething projection. I genuinely feel sorry for you, dude, and I hope you get better. It's not healthy to lash out like this. You are holding on to so much negativity.

>>3999365 (OP)
>/vrpg/ is not ready to accept this
Brother, why are you making a thread about a geriatric mechanic that went out of fashion decades ago?

>>3999387
Not only does this reward all playstyles, including pacifists, it's also literally how Dungeons and Dragons worked originally. Shadowdark is the most popular modern pen and paper RPG right now, and the main reason is because the XP is tied to treasure instead of battles. Money is the only stat people care about IRL.

>>3999682
That's true for any skill. Keeping mind the actual detoriation will slow down fast. Athletes can't compete after a month of training, they are still world class. They might get back to form within days.

>>3999824
You'll remember the basics of swimming, but if it has been years since you did it, you won't be particularly fast.
So a skill decay would probably have to work like this:
>skill can level to 10 (mastery)
>decay starts after 5 and will never drop below
>decay gets exponentially faster until level
>in the time it takes to level magic from 7 to 8, kickboxing would have fallen from 10 to 9
>while getting it back up to 10, magic will fall to 6 and your basket-weaving mastery will drop from 10 to 8
Basically like the skill decay in Rimworld. That should ensure you can't max out everything, but can still be good at most things giving you flexibility.

>>4000031
What RPG campaign lasts years and has periods where you don't use a skill for years? This makes sense in a simulation, not really an RPG.

>>4000061
It's all a simulation, lots of things are condensed. You're not going to go from novice to archmage in a year, no matter how many times you cast magic missile at a goblin. But you can in RPGs.
The other anon just mentioned you can become master in everything in some direct skill-levelling games. Just suggesting a way to prevent that.

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>>4000081
>You're not going to go from novice to archmage in a year, no matter how many times you cast magic missile at a goblin.
I know, Trebonius, you can stop rubbing it in now.

>>3999365 (OP)
Correct, Skyrim despite all the hate and faults has the best way to build a character, you get better at what works for you

>>3999896
>Not only does this reward all playstyles, including pacifists, it's also literally how Dungeons and Dragons worked originally.
It feels much better imo because it lets players play organically and not try to min max optimize XP rewards. The “your skills go up as you use them” always sounds appealing but always results in inorganic gameplay and players doing weird gamey shit to max out the gainz.

>>3999365 (OP)
I liked rolling stats. A good roll always feels great for a character. It's easily exploitable, but at the same time giving you the option to make your own rules and settle for something less as a challenge, similar to how table top functions. You could remove rolling and just let people choose their stats, but they will often just pick the best options anyway. The random and gambling nature of the rolling system keeps people honest, while also giving them a reward for persistence. I think it actually helps balance the game in some ways, because the odds of better rolls often deters some people from continuously rerolling anyway.

>>4000105
An important element of early DnD that was lost along the way was asymmetrical class balance. Some classes like paladin were intended to be more rare since they required higher stat minimums to play. That, and different classes having different XP curves.

>play icewind dale
>roll stats for each self-created party member
>pick classes only according to stats
>enjoy

>>4000090
Except for all the "sneak + autorun into a wall" and potion shenanigans to bypass that system completely.

>>3999827
Click on the + and - next to those stats, anon. Click those buttons. I dare you. I dare you to click those buttons and tell us what happens when you do.

>>3999527
That's not point buy, in point buy, the cost goes up as the stat goes up, so 17-18 is more expensive than 12-13

>>4000081
Yeah, you can't fix autism with systems, I said this earlier. No matter what you design, it can be gamed if a player doesn't want to roleplay.

>>4000121
>in point buy, the cost goes up as the stat goes up
That's not an universal rule.
Fallout has point but without an increasing cost.
BG games simply let you roll for the total stat budget.

>>4000121
When you shift the goalposts with new definitions you just made up on the spot to suit your narrative, it makes you look really fucking stupid, anon.

>>4000217
>When you shift the goalposts with new definitions you just made up on the spot to suit your narrative, it makes you look really fucking stupid, anon.
NTA. You are a moron. In Baldur’s Gate you are rolling stats, 3d6 for each (with a floor for your chosen class’s minimums applied). Different characters will receive a different number of points based on their rolls. Then, the game also allows you to reroll, or to reallocate freely between your rolled stats.
In point buy systems, each character receives an equal allotment of points, and then freely buys stats up to their allotment. In some systems, the cost of each marginal point grows, while in others, all points cost the same, but the defining factor of point buy systems is that all characters start with the same allotment (not randomly rolled totals), and that the player can choose their desired stat array instead of accepting a randomly rolled result.

>>4000217
Retard.

>>4000117
>Click on the + and - next to those stats, anon. Click those buttons. I dare you.
I don't know what it is, but the literacy of /vrpg/ has fallen off a fucking cliff in the last week. This is extremely grim. Let me provide you with a helpful recap of the reply chain:
>>3999365 (OP)
>OP picrel is the UI from the "enhanced" edition
>>3999419
>That UI was soulful and gave me a possitive impression even though I knew nothing about d&d back then.
>>3999423
>That's not the original UI, that's the cringe demake UI.
>>3999528
>God, the mindlessly negative misinformation bullshit is so fucking insufferable. Shut the fuck up, stop lying
>>3999827
>Picrel: the UIs from BG1 and BG2 to contrast with OP picrel
>Oh no no no, you did play the games, right? You do know what the games looked like, right? You wouldn't happen to be lying and spreading MISINFORMATION, would you, anon?
And you respond with some bullshit about the plus and minus buttons, which have absolutely nothing to do with the UI. Baka.

>>4000238
Speaking of reading comprehension, you missed the whole long part about pointbuy. Which you wouldn't have missed if you had read any of this thread. So, I guess there is that.

>>4000231
No, the defining feature of pointbuy is that you can move the points where you want.

>>4000242
Just admit that you fucked up and replied to the wrong post and pretended it said something it didn’t, dumbass.

>>4000244
Or you could scroll up. Bye, dumbass.

>>4000238
This one dude on this board thinks he's a master troll, he just says retarded non-sequiturs and pretends he baited someone. Once he just stops talking about the subject and begins awkwardly insulting you, you know you've won.

>>4000276
>This one dude on this board thinks
Would that we should have only one, anon.

>>4000281
If they several people act they same way, aren't they really just one dude, functionally?

>>3999707
"Forget" is an exaggeration. Knowledge-related and especially reasoning-related skills come back to pretty much 100% very quickly. Restoring your physical abilities to the same level is incomparably harder.